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[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Jim Saxton black.belt.jimmy@xxxxxxxxx wrote: Using this tree structure will increased the support time needed by new users. It will devrease the adoption rate for haiku when it reaches r1. On the contrary: the end users (who aren't developers) should not even know about this. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: package / non-packaged (was Haiku, Inc. etc.) (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Donn Cave donn@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: That seems like asking for trouble - provide a non-packaged alternative to the package system, but say (to yourselves) it's not really to be used. So you can pull it later, and say no one should have using it? It seems unlikely that there will ever be any need to lock the system down to packaged files only, why not accept this as a virtue of the design? No. Having non-packaged is very useful to developers, who may want to test ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jim Saxton)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On 2/17/15, Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx wrote: On 2/16/2015 11:12 PM, Chase Rayfield (Redacted sender cusbrar2@xxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote: ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their software via HPKGs, or unzip and run anywhere. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] package / non-packaged (was Haiku, Inc. etc.) (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
Quoth Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx, Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their software via HPKGs, or unzip and run anywhere. That seems like asking for trouble - provide a non-packaged alternative to the package system, but say (to yourselves) it's not really to be used. So you can pull it later, and say no one should have using it? It seems unlikely that there will ever be any need to lock the system down to ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On 2/16/2015 11:12 PM, Chase Rayfield (Redacted sender cusbrar2@xxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote: ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On 2/16/2015 8:54 PM, Pete Goodeve wrote: Please don't assume that I'm stupid.... I don't think you're stupid :) But if you have some error messages or descriptions of what didn't work, please don't hesitate to tell me! -Augustin ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Stephan Aßmus)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
Am 15.02.2015 um 23:50 schrieb pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx: On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 10:06:09AM -0800, Jim Saxton wrote: The proper way to accomplish this would have been to leve the directory system as it was under the home directory but add a ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Adrien Destugues)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 03:02:51PM -0800, Yourself wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 09:25:02PM +0100, Axel D?rfler wrote: On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you would place your library in a Software Valet package and tell it to put ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Chase Rayfield)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
What exactly is the reason for choosing ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Is this something to do with having a RO file tree with RW overlays or something of that nature? Actually, it would seem more logical to me to have a normal BFS mounted RW with the linux equivalent of loop mounts for the packages a la DSL packages or Puppylinux environment addons (they used to package the toolchain as a squashfs I imagine they still do).  From what I understood of the package format it does work as loop mounts with ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 08:00:22PM -0500, Augustin Cavalier wrote: On 2/16/2015 7:58 PM, Pete Goodeve wrote: Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ~/config/bin, ../add-ons, .../lib, and so on. (Even had ~/config/apps for a long time for convenience, but that got moved to /boot/common/apps(!)) Then you could have copied all the stuff from ~/config into ~/config/non-packaged. -Augustin ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On 2/16/2015 7:58 PM, Pete Goodeve wrote: Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ~/config/bin, ../add-ons, .../lib, and so on. (Even had ~/config/apps for a long time for convenience, but that got moved to /boot/common/apps(!)) Then you could have copied all the stuff from ~/config into ~/config/non-packaged. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 07:14:12PM -0500, Augustin Cavalier wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:02 PM, I wrote: (I should probably mention that I eventually got most of the environment I had built up in pre-PM days now working in a PM partition by a horrible hack! I turned everyting in my old config hierarchy into an hpkg and installed that!) Well, ~/config/settings is still writeable so if that's all you wanted to keep, a tgz would have been enough... Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On 2/16/2015 6:02 PM, Yourself wrote: (I should probably mention that I eventually got most of the environment I had built up in pre-PM days now working in a PM partition by a horrible hack! I turned everyting in my old config hierarchy into an hpkg and installed that!) Well, ~/config/settings is still writeable so if that's all you wanted to keep, a tgz would have been enough... ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Yourself)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 09:25:02PM +0100, Axel D?rfler wrote: On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you would place your library in a Software Valet package and tell it to put it into B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY, and everything would continue to work. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
[Probably ought to change the subject line by now, but as this is a follow-up...] On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:08:14PM -0800, pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: [.....] I wasn't even aware that the 'finddir' command existed! I've never seen it documented. I've been trying to find an 'Install' script or something that used it in all the apps I've downloaded over the years, but have so far failed. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
Quoth Axel Dörfler, ... However, the point is, if you had followed the rules that already existed since BeOS, everything should continue to work. Not to beat a dead horse, but my point is, you should not say that so often. Not because it isn't true - honestly, I'm still not sure it is, but I don't care if it's true or not. Why would I care? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (looncraz)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
Why are there performance problems related to a union file system? Is it not possible to treat it like sandboxing or simple redirection? Where each application's writes to protected paths are redirected to a safe location. We know when files are created with write permissions, so we should be able to silently change the path to somewhere like ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Axel Dörfler)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (pete . goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 05:23:41PM +0100, François Revol wrote: On 16/02/2015 17:06, Donn Cave wrote: Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jim Saxton)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On 2/16/15, François Revol revol@xxxxxxx wrote: On 16/02/2015 17:06, Donn Cave wrote: Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? ...
Categories: Development