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[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Thu, 2015-02-19 08:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Pete Goodeve pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: One of the arguments I've kept hearing from those in favour of the current setup is that nobody has specified what has been broken. No, that is one of the arguments of why should we switch, and not why the current system is good. My overview is that the current system is good because: ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Thu, 2015-02-19 08:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:51:57AM +0100, Stephan A?mus wrote: Am 15.02.2015 um 23:50 schrieb pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx: I've been keeping quiet through all this, because last time I spoke up a few months ago I just got dumped on. (:-/) You considered that getting dumped on?! I presume you mean responses like this: ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Axel Dörfler)

Thu, 2015-02-19 08:45
Am 17/02/2015 um 20:20 schrieb John Scipione: And I still see no reason that non-packaged has to exist, it breaks software (for good or for ill) and workflows for little to no gain. I really hope that the developers reconsider this decision before the next release. The developers? You talk like you aren't one of them :-) ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (John Scipione)

Thu, 2015-02-19 08:45
On Feb 17, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx wrote: On 2/16/2015 11:12 PM, Chase Rayfield (Redacted sender cusbrar2@xxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote: ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their software via HPKGs, or unzip and run anywhere. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Ingo Weinhold)

Thu, 2015-02-19 04:45
On 02/17/2015 07:07 PM, Augustin Cavalier wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:55 PM, Donn Cave wrote: Release builds, that's up the air. It might be there, or it might not be. Or we might leave it in the PATH but not have it created ... It's no wonder you don't see what I'm talking about, if this gratuitous change to the directory structure is, to you, having an additional ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jessica Hamilton)

Thu, 2015-02-19 04:45
On 18/02/2015 6:10 AM, Axel Dörfler axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: Am 17/02/2015 um 17:34 schrieb Ingo Weinhold: The main argument for having a ~/config/non-packaged instead of a ~/config/packaged is that almost all software people use will be packaged. Therefore it is just consequent to keep the paths of the majority of installed software short and convenient. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Thu, 2015-02-19 04:45
On 2/17/2015 12:55 PM, Donn Cave wrote: Release builds, that's up the air. It might be there, or it might not be. Or we might leave it in the PATH but not have it created ... It's no wonder you don't see what I'm talking about, if this gratuitous change to the directory structure is, to you, having an additional element. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Donn Cave)

Thu, 2015-02-19 04:45
Quoth Kacper Kasper kacperkasper@xxxxxxxxx, How is having an additional element in the path hostile? Additional? My understanding is that we're talking about a directory that would be removed in a final distribution, though possibly retained in PATH. Release builds, that's up the air. It might be there, or it might not be. Or we might leave it in the PATH but not have it created ... ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Axel Dörfler)

Thu, 2015-02-19 00:45
Am 17/02/2015 um 17:34 schrieb Ingo Weinhold: The main argument for having a ~/config/non-packaged instead of a ~/config/packaged is that almost all software people use will be packaged. Therefore it is just consequent to keep the paths of the majority of installed software short and convenient. The majority of software will be installed in /system. ~/config will ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Kacper Kasper)

Wed, 2015-02-18 22:45
2015-02-17 18:02 GMT+01:00 Donn Cave donn@xxxxxxxxxxx: I don't see any major problem with the current configuration, but it would be a bad move to make the production release configuration hostile to anyone but this narrow definition of end users. How is having an additional element in the path hostile? If you are power user you can figure it out. If you can't then our documentation is lacking, not the implementation. - Kacper ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 14:45
Quoth Kacper Kasper kacperkasper@xxxxxxxxx, By non-developers Augustin meant people who do not develop SOFTWARE, not just Haiku. If you do that, you're either software developer or power user, and both in my opinion do not fit the definition of end user we are talking about here. I think that's an artificial and unproductive distinction. Early in the game, power users of one sort or another are not only end users, they're ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Stefano Ceccherini)

Wed, 2015-02-18 12:45
Il 17/feb/2015 16:49 Jonathan Beatty easyegoism@xxxxxxxxx ha scritto: Absurd argument. I'm not a developer of Linux, although I use it all the time, and I put scripts and binaries wherever I please quite frequently. Contempt of community indeed. Well, if you're really putting scripts and binaries wherever you want in Linux you're doing it wrong, since you're supposed to use /usr/local/bin or the other local paths which (oh no!) are longer than the respective packaged paths, just like on haiku with PM. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Ingo Weinhold)

Wed, 2015-02-18 12:45
On 02/17/2015 04:49 PM, Jonathan Beatty wrote: Absurd argument. I'm not a developer of Linux, although I use it all the time, and I put scripts and binaries wherever I please quite frequently. Contempt of community indeed. First of all: Please don't top-post. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Kacper Kasper)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
2015-02-17 16:49 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Beatty easyegoism@xxxxxxxxx: Absurd argument. I'm not a developer of Linux, although I use it all the time, and I put scripts and binaries wherever I please quite frequently. Absurd as well. By non-developers Augustin meant people who do not develop SOFTWARE, not just Haiku. If you do that, you're either software developer or power user, and both in my opinion do not fit the definition of end user we are talking about here. - Kacper ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jonathan Beatty)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
Absurd argument. I'm not a developer of Linux, although I use it all the time, and I put scripts and binaries wherever I please quite frequently. Contempt of community indeed. On Tue, Feb 17, 2015, 9:46 AM Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx wrote: On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Jim Saxton black.belt.jimmy@xxxxxxxxx wrote: ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Jim Saxton black.belt.jimmy@xxxxxxxxx wrote: Using this tree structure will increased the support time needed by new users. It will devrease the adoption rate for haiku when it reaches r1. On the contrary: the end users (who aren't developers) should not even know about this. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: package / non-packaged (was Haiku, Inc. etc.) (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Donn Cave donn@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: That seems like asking for trouble - provide a non-packaged alternative to the package system, but say (to yourselves) it's not really to be used. So you can pull it later, and say no one should have using it? It seems unlikely that there will ever be any need to lock the system down to packaged files only, why not accept this as a virtue of the design? No. Having non-packaged is very useful to developers, who may want to test ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jim Saxton)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On 2/17/15, Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx wrote: On 2/16/2015 11:12 PM, Chase Rayfield (Redacted sender cusbrar2@xxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote: ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their software via HPKGs, or unzip and run anywhere. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] package / non-packaged (was Haiku, Inc. etc.) (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
Quoth Augustin Cavalier waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx, Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their software via HPKGs, or unzip and run anywhere. That seems like asking for trouble - provide a non-packaged alternative to the package system, but say (to yourselves) it's not really to be used. So you can pull it later, and say no one should have using it? It seems unlikely that there will ever be any need to lock the system down to ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 10:45
On 2/16/2015 11:12 PM, Chase Rayfield (Redacted sender cusbrar2@xxxxxxxxx for DMARC) wrote: ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Because ~/config/non-packaged was/is supposed to be temporary and only used by e.g. developers testing software. End-users should get all their ...
Categories: Development