dreams of desktop environment

Forum thread started by VV_Vasilenko on Fri, 2011-03-25 11:13

It's my vision of Haiku desktop environment.

The workspace is local web page.
The workspace can consists of DHTML widgets, design theme, configuration scripts or only web page.

What about your vision?

Comments

Re: dreams of desktop environment

I would suggest, if i may, to comment on this good design. This design is very similar to what we can see on most unix-like desktop environment. Perhaps you could mix this design to the OS X design? try to imagine that by the time that Haiku is released we should see multi-touch screen to be common.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Err, well, why re-invent the weel every time ?

A mix-up of these two GUIz (SharpEnviro and SkyOS) would be great, IMHO.

Sharpe Shell

SkyOS

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Look like Gnome clone, but based on HTML. HTML is bad idea for GUI because it's slow, old, it's hard to make good programs on it and it isn't compatiable with C++.

There are no tray in Haiku. Haiku has deskbar shelf.

DHTML widgets can be easily implemented as WebPositive replicants.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

It's my new vision of Haiku desktop environment.

You can make GUI for web applications using ExtJS (for example).
I don't propose make new DE.
I propose give new functions for OpenTracker.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

I'm by no means an artist, but I think I have a design that works:

The image gets cropped for some reason in the forum. It should work if you save it though.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

All the above designs share one common flaw IMHo which is Deskbar location.

In Haiku Deskbar is collapsed in the upper right-hand corner. Given the tabbed window title this leaves the Leaf menu a l w a y s accessible by mouse without minimizing something. At the same time the windows can still occupy full heigth and width of the screen.

Typically, in order to see something in the tray or task list one only need to rise hidden portion of the deskbar. In order to get around this it might be a good idea to include some vital information such as clock or worksapce switcher on the Leaf menu button itself. Apart from this kind of tweaks I don't think the Haiku workspace need to be drastically changed.

As to desktop widgets - there are replicants, indeed.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

*fixed

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Previewing "Windows 8"

Here are a few aspects of the new interface:

  1. Fast launching of apps from a tile-based Start screen, which replaces the Windows Start menu with a customizable, scalable full-screen view of apps.
  2. Live tiles with notifications, showing always up-to-date information from your apps.
  3. Fluid, natural switching between running apps.
  4. Convenient ability to snap and resize an app to the side of the screen, so you can really multitask using the capabilities of Windows.
  5. Web-connected and Web-powered apps built using HTML5 and JavaScript that have access to the full power of the PC.
  6. Fully touch-optimized browsing, with all the power of hardware-accelerated Internet Explorer 10.

Link:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2011/jun11/06-01corporatenew...

Re: dreams of desktop environment

VV_Vasilenko wrote:

Previewing "Windows 8"

Here are a few aspects of the new interface:

  1. Fast launching of apps from a tile-based Start screen, which replaces the Windows Start menu with a customizable, scalable full-screen view of apps.
  2. Live tiles with notifications, showing always up-to-date information from your apps.
  3. Fluid, natural switching between running apps.
  4. Convenient ability to snap and resize an app to the side of the screen, so you can really multitask using the capabilities of Windows.
  5. Web-connected and Web-powered apps built using HTML5 and JavaScript that have access to the full power of the PC.
  6. Fully touch-optimized browsing, with all the power of hardware-accelerated Internet Explorer 10.

Link:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2011/jun11/06-01corporatenews.aspx

autoocular surgical removal of cornia, with a icepick is preferable to using that piece of shit.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

I don't know it from daily use, but the desktop environment seems to work OK the way it is.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Note: I am not currently part of Haiku development; these are my (very strong) opinions.

apl wrote:

I don't know it from daily use, but the desktop environment seems to work OK the way it is.

It's not OK--it's great. Not perfect, but pretty great.

Implementing an HTML5 desktop is a neat-sounding idea, but it is one of the last things that should get focus at this point. One of the main benefits of using HTML5 in the DE is speed/being lightweight, and Haiku currently has that accomplished.

Additionally, a glaring, negative implication of this proposal is a static deskbar, positioned at the top of the screen. This is not a good idea for two reasons. The first, as pointed out above:

muda wrote:

In Haiku Deskbar is collapsed in the upper right-hand corner. Given the tabbed window title this leaves the Leaf menu a l w a y s accessible by mouse without minimizing something. At the same time the windows can still occupy full heigth and width of the screen.

The default placement of the deskbar lends itself to constant access to the Leaf menu without taking up extra screen real estate. However, if I don't like the placement, it is possible (and easy) to move the deskbar wherever I would like. This leads to the second reason why a static deskbar is a bad idea: It removes user choice.

Finally, as far as emulating Windows 8 goes... I don't want to seem overly hostile to the notion, but please Prime Deity no. A populated start screen is a GUI paradigm shift that needs to happen, in my opinion; but Haiku achieves this. When I shut-down Haiku, my session is saved, and whatever programs were running at shut-down start up right away at boot. A fully-developed touch screen UI would be cool, but again, it shouldn't be on the devs' short-list by any means. In fact, to fully emulate W8, the flashy touch UI would just be another program that runs on top of the existing UI; the modularity of Haiku would allow this with almost no hassle.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

aspirin wrote:

When I shut-down Haiku, my session is saved, and whatever programs were running at shut-down start up right away at boot.

I'll bite - my default Haiku install doesn't do this (though I vaguely remember BeOS doing so). Is there some configuration switch I need to set to make this possible in Haiku? (It would be very useful!)

Rodney

Re: dreams of desktop environment

There's no session management on Haiku (yet, Clemens was testing the waters recently) and there wasn't any on a default BeOS. Only Tracker keeps... er... track of its open windows at shutdown. I suspect aspirin is running in a VM that saves the state, so he's not actually shutting down Haiku.

Regards,
Humdinger

Re: dreams of desktop environment

"VV_Vasilenko" wrote:

The workspace is local web page.
The workspace can consists of DHTML widgets, design theme, configuration scripts or only web page.
What about your vision?

Here's my question: what problems in the current paradigm are you trying to solve?

Any time you're designing an interface, you need to start with the question, "what am I trying to do here?" If you want to be able to come up with a good design, you have to have a clear vision of the experience first and design around it. The experience is key, not the design. Apple is a shining example of this premise.

The underlying technologies used should be chosen based on the requirements of the experience. Remember that newer technologies, while shiny and new, are just infrastructure.

Most of what you guys have posted isn't significantly different from what's already there except for using HTML. It isn't all that great an idea for Haiku because the multithreading which makes Haiku so fast isn't utilized anywhere near as well as using regular apps.

Please understand that I'm not trying to rip on anyone's work here -- I just want you guys to use the same kind of perspective that drives the Haiku way of thinking.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Sigh... HTML everything wouldn't give you speed or lightweight :/ it would give you a web browser always running in addition to any normal web browser you would be using :/ .

Sure make it a replicant it would be a neat trick even if I wouldn't like it myself however you can't layer replicants can you? nor than they really be fullscreen easily.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

Humdinger wrote:

There's no session management on Haiku (yet, Clemens was testing the waters recently) and there wasn't any on a default BeOS. Only Tracker keeps... er... track of its open windows at shutdown. I suspect aspirin is running in a VM that saves the state, so he's not actually shutting down Haiku.

Nope. Installed directly to hardware. I made no settings changes, that I am aware of. However, the programs that I usually have running are Tracker and a terminal; so I can't say that you are incorrect about that. Next time I boot Haiku, I will double check whether it is just file-browsing or not.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

rhester72 wrote:

I'll bite - my default Haiku install doesn't do this (though I vaguely remember BeOS doing so). Is there some configuration switch I need to set to make this possible in Haiku? (It would be very useful!)

See humdinger's response above, he is probably correct. It did not occur to me that the only windows I usually have open at shutdown are Tracker and terminal windows; opening a terminal is reflex for me enough that I wouldn't remember opening one at startup, and it's been a few days since I booted into Haiku.

Sorry!

I think GNOME or KDE are the best desktop environments for Haiku

Hello.I have one good idea.Haiku can run with GNOME environment or with KDE or with icewm but use Haiku icons.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

I'm a fan of the idea of using WebKit as rendering engine in Desktop Environment which would enable simple applet development theming. Woot woot! Gnome3 has this AFAIK.

However anybody who suggests a Mac OS/Win 7 (default) style application bar should be stabbed in the face with a rusty fork. It simply isn't usable -- it's nothing more than the product of bad UI designers masturbating.

I don't mind the classic Windows/KDE/Gnome2 style application bar. It works well. Also, being able to mouse over a stack of windows associated with an application and see the thumbnails is cool and usable. I would start here and then continue onto something fancier when compositing is available...

I would replace the application bar with an application *area* (activated by gesture/key-press) which does away with the restrictions enforced by the linear bar metaphor and allows for much more visual feedback on application states/statuses and application management features.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

One thing that may become developed enough in the near future, on Windows and Mac OS, is speech recognition. Wndows 7 has speech recognition now but mostly you have to remember specific phrases to operate the desktop GUI.
It might be preferable not only for sight impaired people but most people know how tired the eyes can get over a long period. Imagine if you did not have to sit in one position over a long period also. Just stand up in the office or whatever room and speak in the computers direction, if you only had to dictate to one application for example. Other times it might still be necessary been close up, when opening/closing applications or gaming etc.
Of course speech recognition as it is with a lot of current user experience, can be frustrating when having to repeat something over many times (if a good microphone won't solve the problem).
In the near future it may really catch on though.
With that in mind how about a desktop GUI, that would give feedback to the user as he/she spoke commands. If a application was fullscreen and covered the Taskbar/Deskbar, just speak "show Desktop" or "show Taskbar". It might also be possible to dispense with the Taskbar/Deskbar and just speak; "open Abiword", or "find word processing applications". A tracker window would open showing a list of found applications. It should not be neseccary for these phrases to always be the same for the same commands, when AI techniques are implemented. So a user would not have to remember a list of phrase style for opening applications, although this would not be a lot of trouble to do. Since we have to remember from a visual GUI what sequence of mouse/keyboard moves gets a certain task done.
Here is an example of how good speech recognition might be, even now:
http://www.smartaction.com/
This is used in a virtual agent. It is proprietary software though. I don't know if there is any open source equivalent or anyone skilled in that to develop for Haiku. After R1 or R2 this may be more practicable.

Re: dreams of desktop environment

I think what sets Haiku apart is it's current desktop. I think if in the future the Haiku desktop uses KDE or Gnome or whatever similar clone is out there that we retain the current Haiku layout for those who like the nostalgia or like it the way it is. I'm not sure if I speak for others but I'm a really big fan of the current desktop.