Made only for Haiku

Forum thread started by oueshcousin on Wed, 2012-04-04 20:43

I suggest to encourage software devellopers to NOT port their software to other platforms than haiku by using a label/logo like this :

hebergeur d'image

If some useful softwares are only available on the Haiku so Haiku will become more popular.

Comments

Re: Made only for Haiku

i like the logo, and i'm not really sure about the port thing. though i do understand your point of view

Re: Made only for Haiku

i encourage you to think and analyze before talking.

Do you think that somebody has ported his haiku-application to other platforms?
Do you think it would be a problem???
Or perhaps you just fail to notice that 3rd-party development for haiku in fact doesnt exist? just some little small trivial programms that often are quite useless.

People dont have time/motivaiton to write/finish their haiku applications (like it's in my case) and you already worry that one would port his app to another OS.

Re: Made only for Haiku

While this is an interesting idea, I highly discourage it. I suggest you to look into this article titled "Support Linux by Not Writing Linux-Only Software."

http://www.tannerhelland.com/3772/support-linux-stop-exclusive-software/

Re: Made only for Haiku

Very bad idea, IMHO.

I would encourage devs to write platform-indipendent software, instead.

Re: Made only for Haiku

I think none of you should "encourage or discourage" any developer to do something. First become a dev youself before you can give advices to devs. To encourage somebody in doing something you should be yourself good in that domain if not very good. So I guess it's more suited if you are more modest and make suggestions instead or spell-out wishes.

Since on haiku we dont use in fact a toolkit that is also available on other os's, writing "platform-independent software" is also not really an option, even if somebody would like.
One could try to write more "easy to port" code, separating the gui part (and other haiku dependent code) better from the rest, but it would make things more complex and perhaps you would even need to limit yourself.

In conclusion. If you want to write on forum about more technical stuff please think more before you write and do some research. Please dont post any random idea just because you are bored and dont know what else to do. (Reading the BeBook is for sure a better idea).
Because like that, more and more devs will omit reading the forum too.

Re: Made only for Haiku

I guess the tons and tons of software ported to BeOS and Haiku from Linux and *BSD angered you so much that you just had to make a logo. My estimates are that over 80% of the software currently available for Haiku is either a full port from other OPEN-SOURCE UNIX operating systems or at least partly open-source.
And you want people to only develop software for Haiku? This is equivalent to North Korea accepting food aid from the USA and at the same time calling Americans ”their greatest enemy and sole reason for their famine”.
What you are suggesting is comparable with ”juche” - the North Korean ideology that preaches self-reliance. That worked wonders for the DPRK, so why shouldn't it work for Haiku, right? As someone above already pointed our, stop and think for a second before you act.
Stop these foolish campaigns and do something useful.

Re: Made only for Haiku

Wow. Don't you all think your reactions are a bit extreme. Sure, oueshcousin's idea is quite misguided. But that doesn't make him Kim Yong Ill's nerdy brother. There are rational reasons against such a logo. Why not stick to these instead of putting a - maybe overenthusiastic - user in his place?

Regards,
Humdinger

Re: Made only for Haiku

Wow. Don't you all think your reactions are a bit extreme.

yes. but sometimes a shock therapy is the best solution to wake up at reality.

And forart.it for example really needs it, he is posting such "bad/uselesss/unrealistic ideas/opinions" (i dont know a better expression) constantly since many years on forums of haiku, syllable, sky-os. Some devs try to tell him nicely "we dont have enough man power to do that", because they dont want to hurt his feelings, but i think in such cases people would do him a great favour telling him the truth and their real opinion.

I think criticism is very important, because from it you can learn. If somebody gives you nice answeres that pleae you, you learn nothing, but from criticism you can learn sometimes something.

I also try myself to take criticism always as an "information/opinion" and not as an insult.

(And that's i also try to encourage people to criticize my applicaitons, and tell me what they think is bad about them)

Re: Made only for Haiku

> but sometimes a shock therapy is the best solution to wake up at reality.

It's also a sure way to poison the atmosphere of a forum. People having shouting matches is big turn-off for newcomers (and seasoned users). Who dares to make a suggestion or state their opinion in that climate?
Sticking to rational arguments may not persuade your immediate adversary (does "shock therapy"? I doubt it.), but everyone else reading the debate will benefit.

Regards,
Humdinger

Re: Made only for Haiku

Quote:

And forart.it for example really needs it, he is posting such "bad/uselesss/unrealistic ideas/opinions" (i dont know a better expression) constantly since many years on forums of haiku, syllable, sky-os.

ReactOS, MenuetOS, Kolibri, OSFree (sigh!) and now on Pyro too ! :O

Not only, now i'm also "stimulating" libraries devs ! (Juce, N.A.S.PRO., etc.)

Oh, well, and multimedia software devs too: LightWorks, ScorchCrafter, etc...

Oh my, and i've also "infected" the DIY scene too ! (loudspeakers, HTPCs and Amps projects)

...and you know what ? All started from the Haiku target change (from multimedia-oriented os to general purpose os) ! ...then - somehow - YOU are responsible for my attitude! :OOOO

Then, Cipri, who's shocked now ? :D

Seriously: I do really *trust* in the "bazaar" model, but i also noticed that today - in the communications era - paradoxically sometime informations flows slowly between devs.
(i've clearly understood it when i've promoted ReactOS between 3rd-party softwares devs: many of them replied "never heard of it")

Then, once again, Cipri: don't waste your precious (dev) time by replying to my posts, just get "something" that can be inspirational for you or simply ignore them.

Last but not least: i'm from Italy -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAJNFoHuLno

Re: Made only for Haiku

yes forart.it, i saw you on pyro-os too and was thinking "not again him and this useless/non-realistic ideas".
I really dont understand it, you are since many years around on a lot of forums and you still dont have a "feeling" for suggesting something usefull/realistic.

By the way, with the raspberry pi you can build now your "low resources" and "cheap" computer with a decent OS (fedora).

Re: Made only for Haiku

uhm... I do like AMD64 platform, instead ! ;)

Anyway, you're demonstrating that my approach works...

Again, i'm not a dev, i'm a PR !

Do we need a regulation ? Of course, I agree. (i *still* remember an old post on ReactOS about this...)

have to go. stay tuned ! ;)

Re: Made only for Haiku

"Haiku native" would be a better way of putting it.

Haiku desperately needs more native applications that demonstrate the strengths of the OS.

Re: Made only for Haiku

halo wrote:

Haiku desperately needs more native applications that demonstrate the strengths of the OS.

Yes, that's true, but how to get 3rd party developers? The user-base for haiku seems to be pretty small.
The chess game i wrote for haiku, with some more improvements (about one month of work) could be easily better than any open source chess game (like xboard, eboard,...). There are just a few people using it. If I would have written such an applicaiton for linux, i'm sure it would have been a success being used my tausends of people.
I have no idea how haiku could manage to attrack more 3rd party devs.
Karl (haikuware) tried to support as much as he could , but it was still not a success.

A "haiku native" logo, wouldnt change much (or anything), since anyway as good as all apps for haiku that are used by people are...native.
The real problem is.. how to get more devs , to write really good applications for haiku.

One (strange) idea could be, .. that haiku offers full time jobs and advertising on many tech sites, that they offer full time jobs. Of course haiku can not afford to spend much money each month.... but I still think that we could find full time developers working for.... 300-500 euro a month. Imagine there are enough countries like china, russia.. where people earn a month... about 100 euro. Also in countries like romania, that is member of EU, there are enough people earning just 150 euro a month.

Re: Made only for Haiku

cipri wrote:
halo wrote:

Haiku desperately needs more native applications that demonstrate the strengths of the OS.

Yes, that's true, but how to get 3rd party developers? The user-base for haiku seems to be pretty small.
(clip)
A "haiku native" logo, wouldnt change much (or anything), since anyway as good as all apps for haiku that are used by people are...native.
The real problem is.. how to get more devs , to write really good applications for haiku.

One (strange) idea could be, .. that haiku offers full time jobs and advertising on many tech sites, that they offer full time jobs.
(clip)

Another idea would be a haiku calendar that showed the selling points of the OS. A calendar would be a really subtle and inexpensive way to advertise. Perhaps someone could make one.

Re: Made only for Haiku

A chess game ? A (phisical) calendar ?
Are you serious ?

The point is exactly this: Haiku needs a so-called "killer application" !

Linux has Apache, Windows has Office and OSX has Photoshop.

Then ask yourself: what people needs nowdays ?

Quite easy to tell, IMHO: just look @ YouTube & DVB-T spreading... more and more people needs to create audiovisual contents (I've read an official report - by our national statistic institute called ISTAT - which emphasizes that young people creativity is moving on the front of video-content creation: http://www.istat.it/it/archivio/5584).

Then, IMHO, Haiku could be the answer to this need.

You could argue that "is not simple", but there are various "signs" that portend a possible mass participation... LightWorks is going open source, WebM, GoogleTV, etc.

Of course it's just my opinion, but I think - considering the difficulty of the goal - there is no time to lose.

Hope that inspires.

Re: Made only for Haiku

"A chess game ?"
https://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/apps_idea_poker_online_chess_on...
The community asked and cipri had the skills to make it.

"A (phisical) calendar ? Are you serious ?
The point is exactly this: Haiku needs a so-called "killer application" !"

You do have a point there. But let me explain my reason. The community wont come until the apps come. The apps wont come until 3rd party devs come. The 3rd party devs won't come unless they think they could sell their app in the market. OS or the apps, which comes first.

We need some way to show the 3rd party devs that the os is here, so that they can start making apps. We need to show the strong points of the os and I think that a one page flyer is simply too small to show what windows doesn't have. There is the deskbar, which only uses the space it needs, as opposed to windows and mac os whose start menu take up the entire screen. There is the live queries, the bfs which removes the need for sql. There is the replicants and the zoom button which zooms to the preferred bigger size instead of wasting screen space by maximizing the app. There is stack and tile which helps window organization.
I think there is so much more that we could be advertising. Haiku has features that windows probably never will. If all these feature were advertised in a calendar, there is small chance that the calendar would get tossed on a desktop like a flyer or a brochure.

btw, both photoshop and ms office are avaiable for both macs and pcs.

Re: Made only for Haiku

cipri wrote:

The chess game i wrote for haiku, with some more improvements (about one month of work) could be easily better than any open source chess game (like xboard, eboard,...). There are just a few people using it. If I would have written such an applicaiton for linux, i'm sure it would have been a success being used my tausends of people..

I doubt that if you programmed it to require an un-released development version of linux, as your game requires for Haiku, that it would be a success. The haiku user base uses r1a3 at the moment. Any newer nightly image is only used by testers and developers. To develop an app and require un-released code to run it on, then complain of the small user base is not realistic.

Haiku does indeed have a small user base and it needs to increase to attract 3rd party devs. This will only happen when Haiku can drop the scarry alpha or beta labels. Most computer users are familiar with these terms, and they mean "STAY AWAY AT ALL COST if you know what is good for you."

Once we get out of the alpha / beta stage we will start to attract users and by proxy 3rd party developers.

Re: Made only for Haiku

kidd106 wrote:

You do have a point there.

Then please, i really wanna understand which is (or will be) the Haiku killer app.

Games ? I doubt that Haiku can beat consoles (PS, Xbox, etc.), sincerly.

BTW there are some intersting projects about open source consolle alternatives:

http://openpandora.org/ (Linux)
http://belogic.com/uzebox/
http://www.ladyada.net/make/fuzebox/
...

But, in this case, Haiku should switch more to games, IMHO.

Re: Made only for Haiku

forart.it wrote:

Games ? I doubt that Haiku can beat consoles (PS, Xbox, etc.), sincerly.

game performance depends on the hardware, not the software. if I had Haiku intstalled on an xbox and the Xbox-os installed on my laptop, the haiku thing would outperform my laptop in a heartbeat. if i built a computer with three top-of-the-line graphics cards and a core i7 processor, it would outperform any xbox or ps3, regardless of the operating system.

also, from what I understand, haiku has a very developer-friendly api, which would make it an ideal os for writing games.

Re: Made only for Haiku

Both XboX360 and PS3 uses a PowerPC-based CPU (3.2GHz)... anyway i'm not arguing about performance, but the attitude.

Games market is clearly dominated by consoles so, if you wanna build an OS of for this purpose, you have to concentrate on it and - for example - add the support for that specific hardware.

My question is different: once again, WHICH IS (OR WILL BE) THE HAIKU KILLER APP ?

When this point will be clarified everyone will draw the appropriate consequences.

Re: Made only for Haiku

forart.it wrote:

My question is different: once again, WHICH IS (OR WILL BE) THE HAIKU KILLER APP ?

When this point will be clarified everyone will draw the appropriate consequences.

I think that an awesome killer app would be a bundled office suite that is not an MS Office or MS office 2003 clone(OOO office). If an office suite was made the Haiku way and supported, I think it would have a good chance in the market.

I also think it would be a good idea if a list could be made of software that people would like to have created or ported, so that if any devs wanted to work on something but was still looking for an idea, they would know what was in demand.

Re: Made only for Haiku

Haiku R1 has to come first...

and then we will see weather it is going to succeed or fail...

Re: Made only for Haiku

Making Haiku exclusive apps is a really, really bad idea.

A much better idea is to make Haiku apps easily portable to other platforms so that apps are developed on Haiku first and then ported to other OS'es later, instead of the other way around. This gives the advantage of people developing native Haiku apps as long as it's easier than on other platforms. Gobe already did this with it's office suit so it's definitly possible to develop native apps on Haiku first and then port them to others.

Re: Made only for Haiku

Just curious...

What, realistically, is the purpose of having applications 'Made only for Haiku'? Haiku is an operating system. I use multiple operating systems. For example, my laptops runs Windows (strictly for Skype and some MSIE Web-Site testing). My desktop primarily runs Linux. I built my little boy a MorphOS computer for old-school games.

On everyone of these computers, I'd run the same programs that I need. For example, I do all of my programming in emacs. If I used the graphical version of emacs, sure it'd be great if it was tied into the native API for display purposes and any possible performance benefits -- but other than that, I'm still going to use emacs on every platform. The same holds true with other applications I use. I use Google Chrome across platforms, LibreOffice, X-Chat (for IRC), etc...

These are all excellent applications. Some of them are massive to the point where re-writing a replacement would be a *lot* of wasted time that could be well spent working on other things.

I completely agree with the idea of building platform-independent applications. When I find an application I like, I want to use that application everywhere. Nobody is going to pull me into their application unless

A. It performs some niche function that is specific to Haiku
B. Somehow (like you guys mentioned with the killer application) it is better in its purpose than any other application other there

However, my point of view is not of a typical user. I'm platform-agnostic myself (for the most part) and tend to view computers and computer programs as functional tools these days more-so than worrying about "fan-boy-ism". The reason I would use Haiku regularly (which is an operating system) is because it would do its job better than any other system out there for my purpose. After it becomes stable, my hardware is well-supported, and some of the important applications I use become ported then I would run it as my primary OS.

Case in point:

  1. Development time would be better spent developing the operating system
  2. Great applications could be ported quicker/easier than building new applications from scratch with better results
  3. Ported applications, which users may have previous experience with, will make the trans