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[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Adrien Destugues)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 03:02:51PM -0800, Yourself wrote: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 09:25:02PM +0100, Axel D?rfler wrote: On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you would place your library in a Software Valet package and tell it to put ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Chase Rayfield)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
What exactly is the reason for choosing ~/config/ and ~/config/non-packaged over ~/config/packaged and ~/config Is this something to do with having a RO file tree with RW overlays or something of that nature? Actually, it would seem more logical to me to have a normal BFS mounted RW with the linux equivalent of loop mounts for the packages a la DSL packages or Puppylinux environment addons (they used to package the toolchain as a squashfs I imagine they still do).  From what I understood of the package format it does work as loop mounts with ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 08:00:22PM -0500, Augustin Cavalier wrote: On 2/16/2015 7:58 PM, Pete Goodeve wrote: Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ~/config/bin, ../add-ons, .../lib, and so on. (Even had ~/config/apps for a long time for convenience, but that got moved to /boot/common/apps(!)) Then you could have copied all the stuff from ~/config into ~/config/non-packaged. -Augustin ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On 2/16/2015 7:58 PM, Pete Goodeve wrote: Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ~/config/bin, ../add-ons, .../lib, and so on. (Even had ~/config/apps for a long time for convenience, but that got moved to /boot/common/apps(!)) Then you could have copied all the stuff from ~/config into ~/config/non-packaged. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 07:14:12PM -0500, Augustin Cavalier wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:02 PM, I wrote: (I should probably mention that I eventually got most of the environment I had built up in pre-PM days now working in a PM partition by a horrible hack! I turned everyting in my old config hierarchy into an hpkg and installed that!) Well, ~/config/settings is still writeable so if that's all you wanted to keep, a tgz would have been enough... Well, no. The whole point/problem is that I have tons of stuff in ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Augustin Cavalier)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On 2/16/2015 6:02 PM, Yourself wrote: (I should probably mention that I eventually got most of the environment I had built up in pre-PM days now working in a PM partition by a horrible hack! I turned everyting in my old config hierarchy into an hpkg and installed that!) Well, ~/config/settings is still writeable so if that's all you wanted to keep, a tgz would have been enough... ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Yourself)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 09:25:02PM +0100, Axel D?rfler wrote: On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you would place your library in a Software Valet package and tell it to put it into B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY, and everything would continue to work. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Pete Goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
[Probably ought to change the subject line by now, but as this is a follow-up...] On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 12:08:14PM -0800, pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: [.....] I wasn't even aware that the 'finddir' command existed! I've never seen it documented. I've been trying to find an 'Install' script or something that used it in all the apps I've downloaded over the years, but have so far failed. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 08:45
Quoth Axel Dörfler, ... However, the point is, if you had followed the rules that already existed since BeOS, everything should continue to work. Not to beat a dead horse, but my point is, you should not say that so often. Not because it isn't true - honestly, I'm still not sure it is, but I don't care if it's true or not. Why would I care? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (looncraz)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
Why are there performance problems related to a union file system? Is it not possible to treat it like sandboxing or simple redirection? Where each application's writes to protected paths are redirected to a safe location. We know when files are created with write permissions, so we should be able to silently change the path to somewhere like ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Axel Dörfler)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On 02/16/2015 07:53 PM, Jim Saxton wrote: This argument is flawed. One could use B_USER_LIB_DIRECTORY to place your program's special lib in and still come up with a read-only directory. Lets face it, like it or not, changing the directory structure changed the user interface and the appi. Only in theory -- of course, this is a huge change from before, but you ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (pete . goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 05:23:41PM +0100, François Revol wrote: On 16/02/2015 17:06, Donn Cave wrote: Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jim Saxton)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On 2/16/15, François Revol revol@xxxxxxx wrote: On 16/02/2015 17:06, Donn Cave wrote: Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (François Revol)

Wed, 2015-02-18 04:45
On 16/02/2015 17:06, Donn Cave wrote: Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? Something like ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Donn Cave)

Wed, 2015-02-18 02:45
Quoth =?windows-1252?Q?Axel_D=F6rfler?= axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ... From the POV of the implementors of PM, there was no reason to keep the old paths intact, as *nothing* should have used fixed paths in BeOS -- I've read this a few times, but have no idea what you're talking about. What is the implied alternative to fixed paths? I don't have any applications out there to speak of, but I started with BeOS when it only ran on the BeBox, have the Be Developer's Guide, was ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Axel Dörfler)

Wed, 2015-02-18 02:45
Am 15.02.2015 um 19:06 schrieb Jim Saxton: The proper way to accomplish this would have been to leve the directory system as it was under the home directory but add a Packaged directory tree. ~/config/Packaged. This way anything in the packaged directory would be read-only, and anything in the normal directory tree would stay read/write. This way, an app that drops libs in say ~/config/lib would still work without needing to be packaged. ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: test (Ingo Weinhold)

Wed, 2015-02-18 02:45
On 02/16/2015 01:51 AM, Sean wrote: haiku rocks, do not reply Please refrain from sending test mails to mailing lists. You're violating netiquette for no useful purpose. If you have nothing to say, there's no point in testing whether your mail would reach the list, anyway. Otherwise you can just send whatever meaningful contribution you ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] test (Sean)

Wed, 2015-02-18 02:45
haiku rocks, do not reply ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (pete . goodeve)

Wed, 2015-02-18 02:45
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 10:06:09AM -0800, Jim Saxton wrote: The proper way to accomplish this would have been to leve the directory system as it was under the home directory but add a Packaged directory tree. ~/config/Packaged. This way anything in the packaged directory would be read-only, and anything in the normal directory tree would stay read/write. This way, an app that drops libs in say ~/config/lib would still work without needing to be packaged. This would have had nothing to do with how PM works, only with the ...
Categories: Development

[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community (Jim Saxton)

Wed, 2015-02-18 00:45
The original plan was a bit different, the idea was to let users write to non-packaged and get these changes visible in the packaged view of the system. This was dropped because there was an unreasonable performance hit in doing this, and it didn't really break any well-behaving BeOS app. Yes, it does means some changes to the FS hieararchy, but this was already changed from BeOS several times in the past (booting a BeOS install is enough to notice that). So, the completely separate non-packaged directory hierarchy is a tradeoff: a slightly more complex FS hierarchy, but a system which works ...
Categories: Development