A must have list for a media OS
Every one knows BeOS lacks a good collection of Powerful apps..
It was due to the sudden death of Be.
Now since HAIKU is on the way, there are hopes for us..
:idea: BeOS lacks a good image viewer (Like ACDsee for windows (Picasa can also be considered in the case of image organiser) ) , and a Powerful fullfledged mediaplayer, VLC is not perfect its not native and is slow, its buggy too.
:idea: Good video codecs were absent in BeOS, DV files cannot be played.
:idea: The success of Linux in Desktop began with the GIMP , the powerful Image editor which was distributed freely with all distributions..
Some powerful multimedia apps will power up HAIKU..
These form some of the integrtal parts of a media OS.
:idea: Since more and more different technologies are used to connect internet, support for Internal modem and connectivity through GPRS must be supported, and also irDA.
:idea: Net+ve is outdated. mozilla/firefox are slow to load and is heavy, no BeOS specific features are available on them.. a new browser will sure accelerate the spirit of the community..
:idea: Tracker with support for thumbanil previews and SVG icons like zeta will be a good plus point.
:idea: And finally, hope the HAIKU's GUI style will be similar to the BeOS Dano/BONE (or an option to switch it will be much better).
Comments
A must have list for a media OS
I think there should be should be some software included with a successful OS:
(I think some of those are included in the CVS already)
1. www browser
2. email client
3. IM client
4. text editor
5. calculator
6. a media player (for various video and audio also streaming)
7. an image viewer (some image editing features couldn't hurt)
8. FTP client
9. sound recorder
10. DV capture
etc.
ok there must be more --- But is there a list of apps to be included in
Haiku R1? Is it going to have its own web browser?
I think the more powerful software should be separate from the OS.
A must have list for a media OS
Not sure about the browser, just know we don't have the code for NetPositive. I believe Firefox (my vote) or Mozilla will be the default.
A must have list for a media OS
There was an article about browsers http://news.beosjournal.org/index.php?id=763&page=2
I wish there was a browser alternative to mozilla - something that uses KHTML code.
A must have list for a media OS
:idea: Various audio codecs: mpc, ogg, mp3, aac, ape, flac, shn. And support for cuesheets with audio files :)
A must have list for a media OS
Multimedia codecs are pretty easy to take care of, i believe there's already a whole heap written and committed. Although last time I checked the new codec API wasn't documented and was subject to change. From memory everything from FLAC to OGG to MP3 on the audio front was taken care of.
A must have list for a media OS
Ogg Theora would also be nice to have for video codecs.
A must have list for a media OS
IIRC Andrew placed an Ogg video (.ogm file?) at WalterCon--correct me if I'm wrong, though.
A must have list for a media OS
Theora is already supported
Currently:
MP3, RAW, Theora, Speex, Vorbis, AC3 and anything that ffmpeg (libavcodec) supports are supported, in MP3, Ogg, AVI, WAF, AIFF and AU containers
A must have list for a media OS
forget all that stuff.
Before you even get *any* of it you need the developer tools to be able to build such tools/apps/codecs.
Things like version control: CVS and Subversion
Things like compilers: gcc, OpenWatcom C++(?) etc
Things like IDEs: BeIDE (can we get the source from Metrowerks??), Codeleige, MeTOS.....
Then we can look at the things you want.
cheers
peter
A must have list for a media OS
The best media player in the world, VLC, is already built and maintained for BeOS.
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
Oh look, a BeOS download button =)
vlc the "best media player in the world" ;-)
:lol: That's a good one. Maybe when they can figure out how to copy the working overlay code from nplay. ... but seriously, vlc is a half-way decent standover until we get our media player up and running.
Andrew
A must have list for a media OS
Now they just need a Haiku download button ;)
A must have list for a media OS
I'm working on a MediaPlayer app using the Media Kit, its almost on par with MediaPlayer which ships with R5, minus some sound sync issues. Once that is resolved, I'll donate it to the community...
re: cortez
I've been fighting a losing battle with Gecko and KHTML/WebCore for a while now.
WebCore is well beyond me, as it's written in Objective C.
The code which the BeOS gecko embedding widget is based on, has also been giving me recent problems; QNX Photon's API. I'm nowhere near the talent, knowledge, or experience of most Haiku/BeOS devs and it's showing in my lack of progress.
Some people have expressed interest in helping , but with all beos devs are currently engaged in other and more important projects.
ANY help is well appreciated.
Most of the BeOS API specific parts deal with BMessengers and BMessages to replace QNX Photon's Callback routines.
in short, i know its futile to try doing this solo, but i'm still gonna try.[/b]
A must have list for a media OS
awesome job on the site! very exciting to see the project moving forward. here's my personal little list for what i feel the "Media OS" essentials are, for me anyway.
-serious MIDI support (like Core MIDI in OS X) with support for current hardware
-support for Firewire hard disks, like my Lacie 160GB that doesn't work in R5
-support for professional USB and Firewire soundcards
-support for DVD burners etc
Non Media Things:
-an easy access "Force Quit" feature to kill hung apps
-AIM support using current protocols
A must have list for a media OS
The "Force Quit" feature is already there in R5. Just hit Ctrl-Alt-Delete and you'll have a list of running processes. The only grief I have with the current implementation is that it's automatically closed after killing a process. I would like to be able to kill multiple processes without opening the panel several times. Just don't implement the auto-close feature and I'm happy.
AIM will be supported by the ImKit.
A must have list for a media OS
Try the vulcan death grip - hold all the keys in the lower left of the keyboard (Ctrl, Shift, Win, Alt) and just click on the app's entry in the Deskbar.
A must have list for a media OS
i hope it's good. BeAIM doesn't let me log in because my screen name contains "@" because it's one of those dot mac email addresses. BeAIM doesn't seem to like that at all.
A must have list for a media OS
Nice! I did not know this one! :)
A must have list for a media OS
...as long as it's not a messy port. Nothing I hate more than when a browser is ported, but _that's it_. Needs to be brought in line with the rest of the OS.
If that's done, and it's not buggy, it's a winner!
A must have list for a media OS
Money. How many people are willing to donate for these projects? I have donated some, and would certainly pay more to get something decent.
Everyone wants something great for free, but that just isn't reasonable at this stage of the game. More people have to be willing to fund the initiation of projects or the developers will loose interest once they get a clear picture of what a huge pain their dream really is...
Prove me wrong though and we'll both be happy.
A must have list for a media OS
Well, i am in fact agree with the most of what was written here, except about the Gimp and VLC.
What a new OS have to do today is to be simple enough that my grand ma could use it. Why someone would use a different OS that Windows (i mean by this common people) if it's closely the same. We have to get things simplier and better, and have a big big big database of localised tutorials to help new comers. First !
Having native apps is a must have. sorry but to me VLC is not a good issue. It's buggy, gets BeOS slower that never. I can't understand either why we should have tons of apps doing the same job. If mediaplayer can handle DVD and Divx playing, we don't need VLC anymore ... that's what i cant stand under Windows ! I have QuickTime, RealOne, BSPlayer, DivxPlayer, VLC and WMP. QuickTime can't handle DVD and Divx, Real can but getting everything slow, BS Player is good but can't handle DVDs and sometimes ain't got correct codecs ...... SSTTOOPPP !!!! :@
So please !!! Only one video player that do all. You clic on the video file, and it is playing. That's the way it should be to me.
(also, playlist please !!!!! I don't care to be able to launch 45 divx in the same time, i can only watch one at a time)
For webbrowser, it's the same, a native thing would be cool. But FireFox is not working that bad so i can use it untill Themis is release. If a WebCore HTML render engine could be implemented in the Themis GUI to wait, it would be nice btw :)
Instant messaging is also very important those days. You know that better than me, you all send files or photos or mp3s or work things to your friends or coworkers with it. I'm actually using BME and it's very good, but untill the file sharing, sound and webcams are not working, people will be angry about it, just like on OS X. I'm sure that you little brother wants to see this stupid emoticon and don't care about be able to launch 45 divx in the same time. If i can't see it, he would sure boot back to xp to chat with his friends ... am i wrong ? ;)
And about style of the OS, i think that alternative OSes have the bad reputation (because of Linux to my opinion) to be ugly pixelated systems in balck and grey and impossible to use for common people, just too complicated. This is what Haiku has to fight first to have more and more and more new comers. By the time a women like you mum can use it, no men will dare to say "i can't use it, it's too complicated for me". So the thing is, to me, not having apps like FFmpeg but more like HandBrake, you know, a few clics and you are done.
well ... eh eh .. quite a long post actually ... "stop it rémi !!" :)
A must have list for a media OS
You are absolutely right.. File transfer and emotions is very important for Instant Messanging.
Get this request over to http://www.beclan.org/blogs/index.php?cat=4 and the IM Kit team...
A must have list for a media OS
Emotions? The little, smiling icons? I hate those things and always turn them off. I use : ) frequently, but when I do I want to see a parenthasis and my colon.
A must have list for a media OS
I hate them as well.. hopefully emoticons never get built into any IM software for haiku :)
OpenGL (superior), OpenRT (Trancendent)
I thought this was quite interesting:
http://www.openrt.de/
Tie in what OpenRT suggests against the feature and app requests on ashkarkm's first post, I think we have a match made in Haiku!
Do I need to poke your imagination?
Now, let's be realistic of course. Lol, realistic...well, just check out the OpenRT site for me.
A must have list for a media OS
Look, I'm not even fuckin' around here. We need to ally with OpenRT.
Re: A must have list for a media OS
since beos is a multimedia os, it really needs apps to make sound/video
- a multitrack recorder (not just a multitrack editor)
- an audio sequencer... maybe port psycle, although that's not everyone's idea of a good sequencer :P - (it's kind of like buzz, if you've heard of that)
- bewine / something similar so we can use windows vst's / vsti's on beos (there are hardly any vst's compiled for beos, and i think ive only ever seen one vsti...) - i guess we could bug the makers of the vsts to port them to beos...
- video editing software
office suite. why not use open office, it's kind of a standard now... the reason why it's slow, is that there's alot to it. you get that with a large app, i guess...
Re: A must have list for a media OS
srry, double post :|
A must have list for a media OS
Yes, video editing app would be nice ! Just a small thing firt, just takig a few video files and put them in the order we want and then export in video format supported by data translators or codecs installed. After that, a few effects to put between rough would be enough i think.
If a dev is interessted to code, i'm ok to make some muckups :)
A must have list for a media OS
Hmm.. I agree to some centralization of helpfiles/documentation. Even for a geek like me it's hard to find documentation already existent. For a newbie it's got to be even harder. And ease of use is of course a natural target for an OS. However an OS can be easy to use in several ways. The first would be to keep it simple (yet beautiful to look at - I don't mean bloated!). However, in creating a simple OS it's important NOT to copy MS since Windows is anything but simple. And we shoudn't make it simple in the same way MS tries to make Windows simple (e.g. creating the apps so stupidly that doing anything just outside the reach of a moron, is impossible). It has to be simple to use for the newbie as well for the poweruser and the Geek of this world (a commandline is sometimes much better than a GUI, and sometimes a GUI is much better than a commandline...)
Because a lot of people can't figure out to create one app that suit everybody's needs. However, such an app cannot be created. That's why we have so many apps. But you don't have all these apps unless you want to have them. I don't have realplayer (it's lame anyway), nor quicktime (AFAIK) - and MS Mediaplayer sux, so I use winamp for everything. The DivXplayer I do have, but never use it, and I just might uninstall it one day.
Come on.. of course you can watch 45 divx movies at the same time, in 23 different languages and write 3 essays on every movie, and all this at the same time :P
Nah.. playlists are nice to have, and I'm sure they will be there, so don't worry about that. When it comes to ONE player for EVERYBODY, I dare to say: "Go to MS then ;)" .. what I mean is that one player ought to handle all codecs if these are installed, but nobody says that MY player is the same as YOUR player. Any mediaplayer shipped with Haiku should be replaceable as well as removable, though I don't think many will do so, if the player is welldone, simple, speedy and stable - and good to use for the geek as well as the newbie (e.g. as few clicks as possible and commandline-control as well - the latter being an advanced option, hidden from the eyes of the newbie)
Well... look at the FireFox source, take whatever can be used at the Haiku-platform, and put into a native application (basically a native rewrite). But remember, whatever application that meets your requirements may not meet the requirements of other users.
Add webcam... And support for IM could be/should be built in the API, so all which is needed is a frontend then. Every user can have his/her own frontend and still use the same basic system. And of course such a basic system should be multiprotocol.
Hmm... I don't believe Linux has anything do with alternative OS'es "bad reputation" (actually they have a good rumour, at least in Denmark). The major issue is ease of use for the newbie and Linux is way better now a days than Windows has ever been (if you use the right linux-distros of course... Debian ain't that easy yet.)
Linux has never been a pixelated system in black and grey, this rather fits on old GUIs for the dos and the classic MacOS (white and black and nothing else). Complicated? Yes... if you want to mess around.. but today linux is easier than windows, actually (but then.. windows is only easy on the surface and within the strict limitations imposed by MS). Your knowledge on linux and other OS'es seems somewhat outdated :P
However: I do agree that things could be done even simpler... Like dragging a musicfile to a Piano-looking icon and drop the file there ... and vupti-hey!! it starts playing. Now, that would be neat :D - this is indeed only one click :P
Ooops... my reply got a bit long too... heh :twisted:
A must have list for a media OS
Well.. I think VirtualDub is licensed as open source... couldn't be so hard to reuse parts of the code in a native Haiku-videoeditor...?
Opensource is btw. a good weapon for us to get many apps. Companies wont port anything as long as we have a small userbase. However, they will, when it gets bigger, but it doesn't get bigger until we have some apps, which we can't get until we have larger userbase. The only way to break this vicious cycle is opensource projects to create a breakthru. Then the commercial apps will arrive, as it is happening in the linux-world.
Before any flaming, please read the "halloween documents" and "the cathedral and the bazaar" :P
A must have list for a media OS
audacity is open source... *cough* :D:|
I thought so
That's what I thought... Virtualdub is naturally a part of audacity, but I only use VirtualDub, bypassing audacity, kind of :P
It's a mediaOS, right?
Hi
I'd just like to add a few thoughts of my own to this thread. The original post was about asking what is definately required for Haiku as a media o/s - so why discuss which browser needs to be included? Surely, as long as a reasonably good browser is included with the o/s, it leaves the end user free to download their browser of choice. Me? On my Windows PCs I use Firefox 1.0 99.9% of the time and then use Internet Explorer 6 the remaining 0.1% of the time for sites that don't work quite right in Firefox. I don't like IE because it's Microsoft, but at the end of the day I'm a realist and I just 'want to get my work done' (TM).
Now, after moving my Win2K PC over to XP fairly recently, I've noticed how much nicer the Windows experience is - especially after one or two little tweaks (replacing dxthemeui.dll so I can enjoy different themes) so why try to make BeOS the 'ultimate user friendly o/s that my granny can enjoy'? (She couldn't anyway; she died more than 5 years ago).
What I would like to see is Haiku work its way into the niche market it was carving when it was BeOS. The same (or similar) market that AmigaOS did when it was around. High-performance media editing (whether it be MIDI, audio, video editing, ray-tracing, etc.) a slogan such as "an SGI workstation for under $500? You can with Haiku" would really interest a lot of people. If I could have something like Pinnacle's DV500 video editing suite available for Hakiu so that it would run like stink on a Pentium II or Pentium III with limited memory - just think how many schools, training centres, and - eventually - businesses would snap it up?
Of course, to have good media capabilities you need good peripheral support (digital cameras, smart phones, camcorders, firewire - hard disks and iPods, etc.) plus good network support - broadband, etc. (Yes, I know this is just down to USB/Firewire support at the end of the day).
From my perspective - you have Windows, you can't seriously expect to move people away from Windows; if anything will do that it'll be Linux and that is still years away. You also have Linux and MacOS, and out of these two Linux is seen as fighting to dominate the Windows market while Mac's tootle along quite happy in their quiet (but significant) niche market - maybe Haiku could sit somewhere in that space. Company's use Mac's to do high-peformance DTP work - I'm sure they (and general users) would love to not have to spend $1500+ on G5 power macs when they could do the same on a $400 PC running Haiku!
Finally, some caveats:
o This post is not intended to start an o/s flame war
o This post is not intended to start any sort of flame war
o These views are from my own experiences of using Windows since 1992, BeOS since 1998, AmigaOS since 1987, MacOS since 1993 and Linux since 1992. All in both work and personal environment.
o Prices quoted are estimates and are based on values in UK Pounds converted (roughly) into USD
Chris
ps, I like emoticons - see :roll: :lol: :shock: :wink:
A must have list for a media OS
you're right, Haiku first needs proper IDEs.
It is a good idea to first add *x ports to exchange them later by own alternatives.
The applications could then be modified to run perfectly for BeOS: e.g. take the K3B core code and make a native GUI. Then optimize the core of course to run fast, too.
Same is possible for other applications, too.
*x has for every application a console alternative (except those working with video and graphics) - these could be used to build a native GUI on top of them.
cdrecord, curl/wget, lynx, vim (dont start a vi vs emacs war here, it just an example) and so on. A native compilation will be very fast and a native GUI on top of it would be very nice. Of course there will be problems making OOo faster =)
The important thing is really that an DevR0 is out (don't get under stress, work creatively and careful) shipping an installer, full API support and Dev tools to port applications to Haiku to create the needed application base. Contributions can then be taken over to UserRelease.
A must have list for a media OS
What about a central management for VSTs like Apple did with Audio Units? Would be very cool, because under Windows it's a real mess.