Fix CaPSLOCK

I think that's a *great* solution to its tendency to be annoying. I hope it gets implemented. :)

AN OPTION??? HAIKU WOULD BE LOVED BY MILLIONS IF CAPSLOCK WAS COMPLETELY DISABLED!!! IT'S NOT ONLY ANNOYING WHEN IT IS TOUCHED ACCIDENTALLY!!! EVERYONE HATES ALL THOSE NEWBIES WHO TYPE ENTIRE PARAGRAPHS WITH THE CAPSLOCK ON!!!! IT LOOKS LIKE SHOUTING, HARD TO READ AND POOR NETIQUETTE!!!

:)

a general system for keybindings would be nice

The scourge of the computer evolution? LOL! Man, you really make me laugh. :) This vilification of the single press caps lock key and keyboard manufacturers is totally blown out of proportion. You sure have an uphill battle on this one, as I don't think people will want to go back to the typewriter ages because a few people make enough noise. Or do you also want to start a movement to make the Enter key double-press, so that you don't end your paragraphs abruptly in the wrong place? :P

The input_server addon would not necessarily translate to option creep as you call it.

The add-on architecture in Haiku (and BeOS) was very much designed for adding new functionality, or altering existing functionality in this way. It was part of the design from the beginning. Much like the Firefox Extensions design.

So, I say as long as someone can go out and build one, that's their business. It could even exist in the Haiku repo as a 3rd party, or sample code for an input_server addon ;)

Personally, this capslock thing isn't a big deal to me - I hate the key also, I rarely use it, and I see a lot of keyboards where it has been physically removed with force. So I know this is a common problem.

@Urias

As you can see from the above quotes, pleople here are talking about adding an option, and that is what I am referring to.

Of course, if a third party creates an add-on that those who are bothered by the evil-doing caps lock key can use, that's fine. But if we are to follow the Haiku way of doing things, then let a third party do this, and don't add it as an option to Haiku.

@Jonathon Freeman

In the context of trying to stay with the Haiku philosophy of sane defaults rather than maximum configurability, adding an option like this takes us in the direction of KDE (where maximum configurability seems to be the priority), and can open the door for more requests for options which are of very doubtful use and for only very few people.

I am *specifically* referring to adding an option to disable the caps lock key, which is what this thread started (and is supposed to be) about. If you want to go on a tangent and start discussing keymaps (we are already supported in Haiku) or support for mouse options, that's fine, but it is a different topic.

Cheers!

The difference is that the many KDE configs don't really contribute to productivity. Everytime someone types capslock by mistake and has to stop in his tracks to correct represents a loss of productivity.

That's what happens when the choices that people *want* aren't available in an easy-to-find-and-change manner. The balance is tricky because the easy-to-change options are usually the most common ones used. If you make it too easy, or provide the wrong set of options (like 1 million ways to tweak the UI), and the users suffer as a result. I believe there's really only an issue with having too many options if the user needs to go and change them in the first place and can't figure out what to change. In any case, this is a rathole that I don't really want to go down personally - the argument has no right solution that works for everyone.

Hmm... I would almost lump this capslock thing into a similar category as "Accessibility features". There is a marginal group of people out there who rely on special keyboard behavior such as "sticky keys" and such. Just because this group of people sucks at typing doesn't make their needs less important. The capslock thing is similar, but basically the opposite, where people who don't want sticky keys (capslock in this case - as that's the behavior it creates) should be able to turn it off.

For me, the key repeat rate for example: in Windows, I *always* want it set to the maximum rate, with the least possible delay. I curse every time I have to go and change it. I realize that not everyone is a fast typist, and so I don't complain that it's set lower than I want. For me, it's the *only* reason I ever open that stupid keyboard control panel... but if I opened the control panel and it wasn't there, I'd be pissed because the default generally isn't right for me. I would feel less productive.

My point is, we should put the features in that help people get things done, you put them where they belong so they're easy to find and use, and you default them to something reasonable. That way there's not likely a need for a user to even go visit said settings - and if they do, they're going to find things that are useful. Just because you don't think it's a useful feature, and a large percentage of people are indifferent (because they use whatever's put in front of them) doesn't make it less useful for those who use it.

And while we're on the topic of useless options that "nobody uses" - let's get rid of the focus follows mouse and instant warping crap. The people that use those must also be a marginal group IMO. (some people are fanatical about that feature...)

Sorry, now I'm just ranting about completely unrelated stuff. Like I said, I don't personally care about the capslock thing - but I do believe that usability features, especially for input devices (and this is definitely one), should be seriously considered and not be simply tossed out because they "add useless options" to the OS.

Just for the record, I did not say or meant to imply that people with disabilities suck or are less important. So, please, don't put words in my mouth. If you want to talk about "Accessibility features", that's fine, but it is a different topic, as the request to fix the caps lock was not in that context until you tried to move it there.

It is not a matter that "Jorge dislikes it, so it should not be included" as you want to make it look like (hate it when people do this just because I defend my position fervently!). It is a matter of keeping in line with Haiku's philosophy towards how the functionality is exposed to the user in the interface and the computing experience in general that we claim it will provide. If we are going to make claims that Haiku is all about simplicity, that it will not expose the user to unnecessary complexities, and that it strives to be a system that just works (those are some of our key differentiators), then we better not start giving into every request out there for features and/or options like this (just to be nice to a few people?).

The fallacy of your "one more option can't hurt" position is that you fail to recognize that everyone will have a reason that they consider valid for their option to be added. So like this one, there will be many more options that people will want, and unless we make a conscious effort to heavily scrutinize this sort of request for options/features, as opposed to being receptive to everyone of them, then we are on our way to option/feature creep. I realize there is a trade-off to keeping things simple, but we can't say one thing, and then put ourselves on the road to another.

I am very doubtful that that is the case. As I am doubtful that there is a tangible loss of productivity due to the caps lock key; I think that's just an exaggeration. Just because an individual starts an overblown campaign and a few around him make a lot of noise on the cloud does not mean anything in the big world of computer users. Or are there empirical studies to substantiate this claim that the caps lock key is evil?

That's a non-standard deviation that will puzzle many, as it will not be obvious to the user that this change has taken effect.

It is a different matter: that was a market-driven decision; this is portrayed as a usability improvement.

Ahhhh... Now I see where this is coming from. :)

But this is a very niche, high-stress application that is extremely unlikely Haiku will ever be subject to. Even the broader enterprise computing space that this application is a small niche of is not a target for Haiku. Not that anyone can have the full certainty that Haiku will never make to this or any other computing space (who knows what can happen 5 - 10 years down the road?), but as things are now, this is not an application that Haiku should be concerned with.

Yes, but from a purely usability POV, there is no absolute measure on whether alt-c or better than ctrl-c or vise versa, and going for one over the other was simply a matter of how many more users you can attract to your platform. IOW, the reason this decision was made was to gain access to the Windows user market, ergo it was a marketing decision more than anything else.

Jorge wrote:
That's a non-standard deviation that will puzzle many, as it will not be obvious to the user that this change has taken effect.

Actually that's the whole point. It resolves the *extremely common* newbie poor netiquette problem with capslock. If a newbie wants to use capslock, they will have to go out of their way to ask "what happened to capslock?" And we will answer "we did this on purpose so that people will think twice before making an annoying mistake."
Do a search for netiquette and capslock and you will see that it is a big problem.

Not to mention other hacks - like the one where you're typing in MS Word and if you have capslock on, lowercase the first letter of a word only, MS Word will turn off the capslock and fix what you typed automatically for you.

Would I condone such a funky hack? no... but clearly they felt it was important enough to retain productivity and usability that they did it. And it's on by default, you gotta go shut it off manually if you don't like it.

I will try to write an BInputServerFilter that does this behaviour (I'm learning BeOS/Haiku currently, so maybe it's not even the right place to do it, but it sounds right to me)

It could be as simple as a package install/reboot to get it activated.

So, ppl that wants that behaviour can easily "add" it to their system, and others keep it as default. Would it be a correct solution?

the other link implies all new Apple keyboards are anti-capslock. The first link is part of Apple's "education."

I guess we won't have the dumb newbie problem because you have to know quite a few things in order to dload and install Haiku. It's more of a problem on windows and mac.

What I really would like to see is a general solution for accessibility issues (people who are blind, color blind, impaired vision, deaf, handicapped, etc). Then there are the localization issues. I believe the OS should be for everybody.

I would like to see a nice elegant solution instead of all these little hacks. We have to optimize the brain-muscle connection as well as code.

We should really talk about this coolly in a usabilities-issues thread.

Happens to me all the time in Real Life, because I talk like if I were giving orders and/or "with too much confidence on the true of my words", that's what I have been told at least.

The trick is to be aware that one is "too able" to give that impression.

Regarding the usabilities-issues:

Alt+[whatever] or Ctrl+[whatever] are indeed equally good. But please take into account that on Windows

Alt+[whatever]: performs actions on the windows (ie: Close this window).
Ctrl+[whatever]: performs actions on the data (ie: Save this document).

The problem in BeOS/Haiku is that Option+[whatever] is used for both actions to be performed on windows/widgets and to those intended to act on data!

*THAT* is what I think that should be changed.

For me, that is an usability issue.

Let me add to that:

holding the mouse button longuer = ackward

Popup menus should all be sticky, and not require you to hold down the mouse button while you're navigating them. At the very least, all the popup menus across the OS should behave in the same way, avoiding the current inconsistency you can observe in, for example, the Deskbar's clock (hold-down to show calendar) and replicants like PC and NetStatus.