Haiku idi Gui

Forum thread started by raitis on Tue, 2005-07-19 15:40

basic gui, still wip. I wil add window with the same kind of theme and ill do some changes to the design, like some colors !

Comments

Re: Haiku idi Gui

Please Install KOffice and use Kword on your Haiku system instead!

Re: Haiku idi Gui

Are there clean ports of KDE and KOffice, which integrate well with Haiku, and do not require the use of Box from TiltOS, available?

Re: Haiku idi Gui

Denise Purple wrote:

...clean ports of KDE and KOffice, which integrate well with Haiku...

That would be an oxymoron. (Sorry, I could not resist...)

Haiku idi Gui

noisetonepause wrote:
Gorgeous, if not 100% usable.

Besides the deskbar, which doesn't comply with Fitt's law because I, as the end user of this system unlocked it from the edge, did you se any other issues that hindered usability?[/b]

[EDIT FOLLOWS:]

In any case, here is my idea of Stacks in Haiku (which are a kind of dream feature)

As usual, I like commentary.

Oh, and to restate my old disclaimer: I didn't design the icons, and I don't take credit for their masterful execution.

[EDIT x2:]

Okay, now here is a new version of my shelf concept.

Also, you'll see in my new context-popup, where the red heart indicates the user's "favorite" action (or default in a new system) that is activated by a double-click as well as key-modifier icons that indicate how other actions can be easily accessed (via the option[alt], shift, or lin/win/cmd key). Objects on the shelf can be picked-up, dropped, or located in the "primary action section". Each contextual popup has primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. sections for category actions. As opposed to "open with …" for the shelf, "send to" is used, because the file is already being handled by the shelf (or bulletin or librarian, whatever name).

Haiku idi Gui

Gorgeous, if not 100% usable.

Deskbar looks great, but you need to move it to the corner in order to comply with...................:P

Tab implementation like I want to see. I take it those were place there automagically? :)

/n

It's been a long time . .

It's been a long time since I posted a mockup of Haiku Rn*.
This one is for the terminal, one of my favorite Linux and Macintosh applications. It is demonstrating my favorite command,  rm -Rf [target] . Also, I am trying out new window handle controls inside the yellow tab; a way of tabbing tab-able applications; and handling tabs, windows, and popups in the the Deskbar.

*Where n is a number greater than 1 but less than 5. Hopefully more towards 2.

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
Leaflord wrote:
there's an article at asktog.com called

no quoting that place either :(

o.O
how bout sites like guuui.com or uxmatters.com? /swt

Haiku idi Gui

Leaflord wrote:
there's an article at asktog.com called

no quoting that place either :(

Haiku idi Gui

Leaflord wrote:
You mean you'll get fits :

Oh yes, conniptions!

Haiku idi Gui

Maybe one could try imitate plan9 -interface a little. I liked it lot too.

The idea is that you do not actually have windows handle or borders, you use right mouse button to select action done for window, select the window and alter it.

Haiku idi Gui

You mean you'll get fits :P

Anyways, yea - usable isn't the law, it just tells u how to shrink up time taken.
There's also higg's law, which tells u the time taken for given number of options.

there's an article at asktog.com called 'first principles of interface design' or something like that, he tells u all that you need to care bout, not just fitt's..

it also has some reasons as to y i dont like mezzo interface - there's no "central home base" kinda feel that you can fall back in times of distress, because the four buttons are given equal weightage

Haiku idi Gui

red_devel wrote:
Sure. Maybe nightmare was too harsh a word, but i do have a few complaints. First and foremost, its completely ignorant of Fitts law. Keep things in the corners please! Almost as bad is how stuff just moves around all over the place in what seems to be a random manner. As a power user, I am really fast because I build common tasks into muscle memory. My icons are in the same place all the time; a flick of the wrist in a certain direction to a certain point on the screen and boom; theres firefox for me. No thinking about it, no looking for an icon.

Thats one of the main reasons I also consider exposee an inferior but flashier way of dealing with lots of windows when compared to virtual desktops. When I press F9 or F10 on a Mac, it will make all my windows visible and fit them to the screen using what must be one hell of an algorithm. Though cool, it means everytime I must to stop, look at all the different windows and decide which of them is the application I want. With virtual desktops, I manage lots of windows by placing different apps on different virtual desktops, and by my own convention I can get to commonly used apps extremely quickly. I always keep email on desktop 6. Firefox is on 3. Gaim is on 1. XMMS and a couple consoles sit on 2. 4 and 5 will be for other apps. At this point its hard wired into my muscles-- email is cntrl F6. I don't think about, I don't have to look at all of my windows and click the right one, which may be anywhere on the screen at all. Its on F6, I know it!

Ok that was a tangent. But yeah, thats pretty much all that bothers me about the dock. Well, the fact that icons for different folders all look exactly the same on the dock can be annoying, but theres not a great way of fixing this without including text. Scrubbing through each one and waiting for the text to appear is a pain. Oh....and I still don't get why stuff dragged off the dock just dissapears from existance. Anyone care to explain?

personally, I find virtual desktops clumsy. I much prefer exposé's method of handling multiple windows. Maybe it is just that virtual desktops are commonly poorly implemented. Remembering where things are, moving windows between them . . .ick.

And, not really related to anything, if someone quotes Fitts' law one more time I am going to die. What is easier and what is quicker are not always the same. What is logical and what is quicker are not always the same.

Haiku idi Gui

There's an article at asktog.com where he gives us 9 reasons why dock sux. Most of em i felt were repeating or simple moaning...

Anyways im not sure if using deskbar to replicate all the behaviour of dock is a good idea... it'd augur a lot more useful screen space that way. Unless, we have a sidebar kinda concept that is used in Vista... but overall it'll involve a big space hog...

Haiku idi Gui

Sure. Maybe nightmare was too harsh a word, but i do have a few complaints. First and foremost, its completely ignorant of Fitts law. Keep things in the corners please! Almost as bad is how stuff just moves around all over the place in what seems to be a random manner. As a power user, I am really fast because I build common tasks into muscle memory. My icons are in the same place all the time; a flick of the wrist in a certain direction to a certain point on the screen and boom; theres firefox for me. No thinking about it, no looking for an icon.

Thats one of the main reasons I also consider exposee an inferior but flashier way of dealing with lots of windows when compared to virtual desktops. When I press F9 or F10 on a Mac, it will make all my windows visible and fit them to the screen using what must be one hell of an algorithm. Though cool, it means everytime I must to stop, look at all the different windows and decide which of them is the application I want. With virtual desktops, I manage lots of windows by placing different apps on different virtual desktops, and by my own convention I can get to commonly used apps extremely quickly. I always keep email on desktop 6. Firefox is on 3. Gaim is on 1. XMMS and a couple consoles sit on 2. 4 and 5 will be for other apps. At this point its hard wired into my muscles-- email is cntrl F6. I don't think about, I don't have to look at all of my windows and click the right one, which may be anywhere on the screen at all. Its on F6, I know it!

Ok that was a tangent. But yeah, thats pretty much all that bothers me about the dock. Well, the fact that icons for different folders all look exactly the same on the dock can be annoying, but theres not a great way of fixing this without including text. Scrubbing through each one and waiting for the text to appear is a pain. Oh....and I still don't get why stuff dragged off the dock just dissapears from existance. Anyone care to explain?

Haiku idi Gui

The dock zooming and the mid-aligned thing (first thing I do on a clean OSX install is move it to a corner) could be said to be annoying, yeah, but I like how the same icons is both a launcher and an app status display. And that you can just drag things on and off it. I'm not saying we need to copy it, the deskbar's great, bar a few niggles, but I still don't see how it's a usability nightmare - care to elaborate?

Haiku idi Gui

I firmly beleive that the Mac OS is Be's close sibling, and I do like the Mac OS, but I also believe that the deskbar is a wonderful advantage of Haiku. It isnt a start or menubar — it is the Deskbar because is manages your interaction with your virtual desktop. The dock performs the same function. I think that enhancing and bringing graceful usability to the deskbar is a better choice than trying to use another implementation's solution. If you look at the deskbar, you will realize that it could be made to behave like a dock (position and autohiding wise) as many of the features are already the same. The Dock (with its partner Menubar) and the Deskbar have alot in common, I don't think we should scrap Haiku's deskbar for its cousin the Dock.

Haiku idi Gui

noisetonepause wrote:
The Dock as it's implemented in Mac OSX is incredibly elegant if you think of it. It does the job of application launcher, application switcher, and process manager in a completely intuitive way. I love it. It beats having shortcuts on the desktop by a factor of roughly 754 - IMHO!

Seems to me that Deskbar does all that also, and is superior for the reasons Dirty Harry listed above. I find the MacOS dock to be somewhat of a useability nightmare. I think theres room for improvement on the Deskbar too, but its imo a better solution.

Haiku idi Gui

The Dock as it's implemented in Mac OSX is incredibly elegant if you think of it. It does the job of application launcher, application switcher, and process manager in a completely intuitive way. I love it. It beats having shortcuts on the desktop by a factor of roughly 754 - IMHO!

Haiku idi Gui

I must admit I don't understand this fascination with docks; I think we already have a far superior model in the Deskbar. It's less obtrusive, easier to mouse to and more functional.

Also, in terms of visual appeal, I think ar1000's gorgeous mockups demonstrate that the Deskbar isn't necessarily constrained by its form when it comes to looking beautiful.

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
Also, as far as the idea of usability, people associate certain things/tasks/functions with certain tools (or concept thereof). You wouldn't want a pair of kitchen scissors that doubled as a steak knife, pair of wire cutters, and a toothbrush. That being said, the design of of the individual tools should be similar, so that they are easier to learn to use — and they should be logically stored in easily accessible places. You wouldn't store your toothbrush in the tool-chest in your basement. The same is true for computer applications IMHO.

We agree - that's why I want one app for organising, searching, and retrieving content. That's one task and one that can be tackled with one well thought out Tracker-like application, IMO.

Yes, but a Picasa/iPhot-like program is not just a photo organizer, it contains sets of tasks unique to photos. Editing, tweaking, printing, book-making, calendar, publishing, sharing, slideshow-ing, etc..... If the point was just to orginize, then it would be a tracker function.

I move that also these things should be done by the viewer application (and/or smaller non-interactive tools (tracker add-ons!) in the case of things like resizing, printing, sharing, etc) and that organisation is kept in the Tracker.

I'm currently brainstorming a document about The Best OS In The Universe For Everyone And Everything And Always Full Stop (aka How Niklas Nisbeth In Denmark Would Like Computers To Work This Week) and will do some GIMP mockups next week. It's based on this philosophy... I'll post it here and on GE as I think it contains ideas Haiku should discuss for R2...

Haiku idi Gui

noisetonepause wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
Also, as far as the idea of usability, people associate certain things/tasks/functions with certain tools (or concept thereof). You wouldn't want a pair of kitchen scissors that doubled as a steak knife, pair of wire cutters, and a toothbrush. That being said, the design of of the individual tools should be similar, so that they are easier to learn to use — and they should be logically stored in easily accessible places. You wouldn't store your toothbrush in the tool-chest in your basement. The same is true for computer applications IMHO.

We agree - that's why I want one app for organising, searching, and retrieving content. That's one task and one that can be tackled with one well thought out Tracker-like application, IMO.

Yes, but a Picasa/iPhot-like program is not just a photo organizer, it contains sets of tasks unique to photos. Editing, tweaking, printing, book-making, calendar, publishing, sharing, slideshow-ing, etc..... If the point was just to orginize, then it would be a tracker function.

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
Also, as far as the idea of usability, people associate certain things/tasks/functions with certain tools (or concept thereof). You wouldn't want a pair of kitchen scissors that doubled as a steak knife, pair of wire cutters, and a toothbrush. That being said, the design of of the individual tools should be similar, so that they are easier to learn to use — and they should be logically stored in easily accessible places. You wouldn't store your toothbrush in the tool-chest in your basement. The same is true for computer applications IMHO.

We agree - that's why I want one app for organising, searching, and retrieving content. That's one task and one that can be tackled with one well thought out Tracker-like application, IMO.

Haiku idi Gui

The issue that I have with the "track does everything" or Windows Explorer model, is that 1. It confines users to a set way of doing things 2. Gives you set tasks to perform and 3. makes a workflow more cumbersome.

The iApp model of 1 App = 1 Job is much more appealing to me because it doesn't expose an app to feature/code/size/memory-bloat. Picasa and iPhoto for me, feel a more natural choice than Windows' Photo Tasks, even if their functions are similar.

Also, as far as the idea of usability, people associate certain things/tasks/functions with certain tools (or concept thereof). You wouldn't want a pair of kitchen scissors that doubled as a steak knife, pair of wire cutters, and a toothbrush. That being said, the design of of the individual tools should be similar, so that they are easier to learn to use — and they should be logically stored in easily accessible places. You wouldn't store your toothbrush in the tool-chest in your basement. The same is true for computer applications IMHO.

Haiku idi Gui

zuMikkebe wrote:
I like if the organizer will be extended in its concept for every kind of file.

I really miss in beos an advanced music or mail manager, I can manage every kind of file with attributes ( with or without indexing) using tracker and queries, but it's annoying, especially for an unexperienced user.

Soon some descriptions about what I dream

I think the 'manage everything with the tracker' is a fantastic philosophy and we should keep it. I dream of an OS where I do all my organisation in one place, and where players and viewers are light instant-on, like services...

Yeah, the tracker could be made easier (the views could be easier to customise, f'instance), but the basic functionality is IMHO exactly right.

Haiku idi Gui

I like if the organizer will be extended in its concept for every kind of file.

I really miss in beos an advanced music or mail manager, I can manage every kind of file with attributes ( with or without indexing) using tracker and queries, but it's annoying, especially for an unexperienced user.

Soon some descriptions about what I dream

Re: Momento

umccullough wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
previews are resizable, and are manipulatable, you can drag a window from a desktop anywhere you like. Controls on that window are inactive, you can only close (drag window to trash in your current desktop) or move (just drag it anywhere) the windows. I will do a more detailed mockup soon.

Cool :) - sorry if I sounded like I was bashing it, btw - I realize my wording wasn't very 'positive-sounding' - but I was just noting the possible functionality gap

no worries, a lack of buttons, controls, and widgets can make it look plain featureless sometimes — but its all about simplicity.

Re: Momento

ar1000 wrote:
previews are resizable, and are manipulatable, you can drag a window from a desktop anywhere you like. Controls on that window are inactive, you can only close (drag window to trash in your current desktop) or move (just drag it anywhere) the windows. I will do a more detailed mockup soon.

Cool :) - sorry if I sounded like I was bashing it, btw - I realize my wording wasn't very 'positive-sounding' - but I was just noting the possible functionality gap

Re: Momento

umccullough wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
umccullough wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
Also, here is my concept of workspace management. Simple.

That looks more like a way to select from various virtual desktops as some other OSes have - the Workspaces tool in BeOS allows you to drag windows from one workspace to another without actually switching to that workspace...i don't see how your version can effectively retain that functionality...

Well, start dragging, and drag it near a thumbnail, the thumbnail expands and the window sizes so it can be moved inside the preview. As I said simple, easy, and not complicated.

What I mean, is i can grab a window in another workspace and drag it into my current one... and I can also drag a window from one inactive workspace to another (as pointless as that may seem).

previews are resizable, and are manipulatable, you can drag a window from a desktop anywhere you like. Controls on that window are inactive, you can only close (drag window to trash in your current desktop) or move (just drag it anywhere) the windows. I will do a more detailed mockup soon.

Re: Momento

ar1000 wrote:
umccullough wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
Also, here is my concept of workspace management. Simple.

That looks more like a way to select from various virtual desktops as some other OSes have - the Workspaces tool in BeOS allows you to drag windows from one workspace to another without actually switching to that workspace...i don't see how your version can effectively retain that functionality...

Well, start dragging, and drag it near a thumbnail, the thumbnail expands and the window sizes so it can be moved inside the preview. As I said simple, easy, and not complicated.

What I mean, is i can grab a window in another workspace and drag it into my current one... and I can also drag a window from one inactive workspace to another (as pointless as that may seem).

Re: Momento

umccullough wrote:
ar1000 wrote:
Also, here is my concept of workspace management. Simple.

That looks more like a way to select from various virtual desktops as some other OSes have - the Workspaces tool in BeOS allows you to drag windows from one workspace to another without actually switching to that workspace...i don't see how your version can effectively retain that functionality...

Well, start dragging, and drag it near a thumbnail, the thumbnail expands and the window sizes so it can be moved inside the preview. As I said simple, easy, and not complicated.

Haiku idi Gui

The photo organizer looks pretty good :wink:

Re: Momento

ar1000 wrote:
Also, here is my concept of workspace management. Simple.

That looks more like a way to select from various virtual desktops as some other OSes have - the Workspaces tool in BeOS allows you to drag windows from one workspace to another without actually switching to that workspace...i don't see how your version can effectively retain that functionality...

Momento

Memories are important things, and managing those memories is an important part of that. My two favorite photo management programs are Picasa and iPhoto. This is my concept of what Momento, a Haiku-native orginizer, would look like. (Its not done yet though) It shows a search in progress.

Also, here is my concept of workspace management. Simple.

Haiku idi Gui

I've only read GNOME's HUI so far, i dint feel so satisfied with it... anyways i think its more closer to BeOS than other projects...

If we wanna make em though, we should check all the BeOS native apps and stuff, and take some inspiration from other OSes on extra stuff of usability..

As for interfaces, i prefer staticity. I like my things around me, no magicky stuff. Dynamicity, only for features tough to access... such as the behaviour shown by IE for images, where you are given with a floating button to let you shrink it up to fit the window, or zoom up to its original size

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
I also think that Haiku should develop good Interface Guidelines. Thats one of Linux's major problems (IMHO), the App's design is a FFA.

GNOME publishes comprehensive Interface Guidelines which are followed by lots of applications. Of course there is no way to force developers to obey such guidelines on any system.

http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/

Jace and others have announced Interface projects for OpenBeOS / Haiku but nothing has ever been published.

Why my Guidelines never saw the light of day

i made the mistake of trying to go beyond simple. i made the mistake of trying to cover the full scale of the topic all at once. so the documents never surfaced as they were largely incomplete. they had good stuff in them and i'm happy to share them with anyone who thinks it might be useful. i based much of it on the "abandoned by its parent" Apple Human Interface Guidelines, but did it BeOS style with some of my own ideas (well, many ideas) mixed in to annoy the status quo and the eye candy obsessed.

contact me if you want the docs and i'll hunt them down and make them available. Problem is, it's in Gobe Productive format... i can run Productive on my current build of Haiku, but haven't opened a complex document and some UI is unreadable in Productive on Haiku.

Also, i dropped out of the community when my life went to hell, so that put a huge damper on maintaining connections with the people who have so far been in charge of these things...

UPDATE: the document opens fine. it's 81 pages with lots of "stubs."

Haiku idi Gui

:D The tracker icon isn't even mine. But just to-reitterate and to resepct the rights of others, THE ICONS USED IN THESE MOCKUPS ARE MOST CERTAINLY NOT CREATED BY ME. ALL ICONS REMAIN THE PROPERTY OF THIER RESPECTIVE OWNERS. USED SETS INCLUDE: PUREICNS, AGUA, AND MODERNTIMES

The "strange blur effects" illustrate the the file is being dragged. Perhaps its too much, perhaps not. I am unsure if I even like the trash on the deskbar, but it is either there or on the desktop — making a separate widget or panel just for the trash would be overkill. I don't use the trash very often myself, i send things too it and empty it, and I think its fine on the desktop (although the option could/would/should exist for deskbar trash for those who want it.

I also think that Haiku should develop good Interface Guidelines. Thats one of Linux's major problems (IMHO), the App's design is a FFA.

Haiku idi Gui

Well ... even if i think the Trash doesn't deserve the same importance that disks or the Home folder link, hiding it into he Deskabar would'nt do the job to me.

What i really like:
- small shadows under labels on Desktop : that just rocks :)
- the fonts used in Deskbar
- Tracker icon

What i do not like
- Those strange blur effects
- the trash icon in Deskbar (definitly no the right place to me - or perhaps i didn't understood the concept well)
- the haiku button in gradient yellow :s (the actual one looks way much nicer)

My 0.2 €

What would be pretty nice too (it's the case for MacOS apps), a "must be" list of things about the GUI of an app. For exemple, a "good" app under MacOS must have buttons seperate by at least 10 px for each and from the border. Sub-menus on rollover are limited Dialog boxes can't be much bigger than the app itself .... those kind of things, to be sure that apps, even third part apps, will feel totally intergrated to the OS. That is the big plus of all apps done by Be Inc, and that's what misses/sucks under Windows !

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
If you enter the deskbar with an empty mouse, the small icon with a label would appear, like in FIGURE 2. When you hovered over it, the icon would saturate, but not expand. Pointing and clicking on an icon is more precise than dragging, so you can have a smaller target.

Ah, I see now. Love it, great idea.

Haiku idi Gui

If you enter the deskbar with an empty mouse, the small icon with a label would appear, like in FIGURE 2. When you hovered over it, the icon would saturate, but not expand. Pointing and clicking on an icon is more precise than dragging, so you can have a smaller target.

Haiku idi Gui

ar1000 wrote:
alright, so my idea for the trashcan is this: the deskbar is clear (SEE FIGURE 1). The trash appears when a user selectes a file (or maybe when he/she beings dragging) it fades in. (SEE FIGURE 2) When the user enteres a certain radius, the trashcan "activates" (FIGURES 3,4) When the user puts the file into the trash, the whole process reverts quickly and "engulfs the file". When this is complete, the file being dragged disappears (well, on a super-ideal system, it would fade, but . . . ) - - Oh, ignore the desktop's trashcan, I just forgot to tun it off.

FIGURE 1:

FIGURE 2:

FIGURE 3:

FIGURE 4:

FIGURE 5:

P.S. : Yeah, I know — everyone but me likes the deskbar attached. So, fine already, here is what it would look like:

Looks really cool. You've definitely got a talent for design. My only problem with it is that there's no way to access the trash can when a file isn't selected, so in that sense doesn't it not offer anything over a right click -> "Move to trash"?

Haiku idi Gui

alright, so my idea for the trashcan is this: the deskbar is clear (SEE FIGURE 1). The trash appears when a user selectes a file (or maybe when he/she beings dragging) it fades in. (SEE FIGURE 2) When the user enteres a certain radius, the trashcan "activates" (FIGURES 3,4) When the user puts the file into the trash, the whole process reverts quickly and "engulfs the file". When this is complete, the file being dragged disappears (well, on a super-ideal system, it would fade, but . . . ) - - Oh, ignore the desktop's trashcan, I just forgot to tun it off.

FIGURE 1:

FIGURE 2:

FIGURE 3:

FIGURE 4:

FIGURE 5:

P.S. : Yeah, I know — everyone but me likes the deskbar attached. So, fine already, here is what it would look like:

Haiku idi Gui

Dirty Harry wrote:
. . . . . suggest that the trash icon should become a part of it instead of being on the desktop. It's a lot more accessible that way.

good idea — i'll try it

Haiku idi Gui

The Deskbar should be in the corner, makes it easier to hit and as far as I can see the margins serve no real purpose. Nice theme and fonts though. The only suggestion I have is for the Deskbar and that is to suggest that the trash icon should become a part of it instead of being on the desktop. It's a lot more accessible that way.

Haiku idi Gui

Well, as I have said before, I prefer it detached (the deskbar) so that is how I would set my desktop. And i prefer large icons, so that is how I would set them. There would be nothing to prevent you from using tiny 16x16 icons, HUGE 256x256 icons or anything in between. Further, I like the orange/yellow tab. Its part of the Haiku/BeOS system. As far as the trashcan, you can certainly place it wherever you like.

Oh, and icons can be held in Bulletin, they would be stored in a Tracker bubble. Clippings from HaikuText are stored in a HaikuText bubble, and clippings from Media Viewer are stored in a Media Viewer bubble, etc . .

P.S. — I like to refrain from thinking what "must stay" or "must ______" because I feel that the computer should adapt to the habits, preferences, and style of the user. The user should not have to adapt to the computer. A computer is our digital servant, not our master.

Haiku idi Gui

I dont see how detaching the deskbar can provide any extra functionality over attached deskbar other than screenshots and mock screenshots..

@beosfrance: it doesnt matter if its ancient or no, as long as its productive

The reason why its easier to browse up over down, is because the mouse is in front of us : when we move cursor up, we're stretching our hand to a more open (and relaxed) position. When we move it down, we're crowding our hands towards our body which creates a prob

as for icons on desktop.... i kinda agree, but instead i say - SCRAP the desktop metaphor. I was mentally experimenting with this concept and found the mezzo desktop to amplify some of my points of view

I agree that recycle bin isn't frequently accessed, but the way you addressed the problem is pretty much the opposite : the four screen corners are the most accessible spots; proven by Fitt's Law. You can just toss your mouse at those directions and you'll access those spots. Placing recycle bin in the bottom, increases its accessibility not lessen.

As for explorer sidebar, i disagree.... many barely use it, it hogs a lot of usable workspace. I disabled the toolbars and sidebar in my windows explorer; and i find it much more usable than ever...

As for the "play files" and "enqueue files" things - we can just embed it into the context menu

About the file info; there are MANY who do. Whenever i burn my CDs, i have to check for this stuff. File type, is necessary by all means and i dont need to prove why IMO.. on the other hand i think enabling extensions can be more usable than to check the file info just for its extension (which was a painful experience to me when i first used a PC)

I dont understand the "special care.." part. Can you please elaborate?

Haiku idi Gui

detaching the taskbar should be an option. default = off. But i think one should be able to do it.

Haiku idi Gui

too much BeOS like ...
IT's ok for R1, but i think R2 should definitly go further on UI design.
The yellow tab is an historic stuff ... but it's a big loose of space on the screen. Detach the Deskbar is definitly taking too much space on the desktop too (you will not put smething between Deskbar and the screen border, so you loose this place)

I think Deskbar should stay on the top. Top right, top left, i don't care ... but it's just simplier and smoother to your hand to scroll your mouse to the top that to the bottom. Test it, you'll see by yourself :)

Pulldown menus in BeOS behave a very nice way to me ! Please please don't touch them ! Keep them simple or why not gaving them a small to color style (http://www.beosfrance.com/muckups/Net++/Gonx%20style/net++01.jpg - forget about the small shadow, even if it gaves it a little plus).

Icon on the desktop in 64x64 is way too big ! 48x48, not more ! See on a laptop 14" 1024x768 what a 64x64 icons took. If you have too hard drive icon + DVD drive + USB pendrive + home folder + Trash + 110px for the Deskbar, those icons took all the space on the top ! (on the base of 90px for giving 15 px on right and left of it for the space betwwen two icons)

The trash must stay on the bottom ! It's not an icon you clic on every 30 minutes, like Home or hard drive ones. It doesn't have to pullote your quick view one those important one.

A special care on System Preferences windows and prompt menu must be taken in order to minimise the keyboard use. That was the big plus on BeOS between other OSes during what we call "the good days".

This could sounds crazy from a BeOS user but the explorer sidebar of Windows is something we should think about cause all in all, it's very conveignant. For example: Only mp3s on the actual folder ? "Play files" and "equeue files" buttons is a good idea to me. Only JPEG ? "Start a slideshow" ! One file selected ? "Send by mail" One clic and the job is done !
The secondary panel in Xp with quick links to disks listing or network favorites sucks ! File Infos sucks even more !! (who cares knowing what the mimetype or weight of the file is ???)

My first 0,2 €... for a good mr everybody experience

Haiku idi Gui

I like the bulletin thing...
can you try to improve it to suit keeping icons too?

BTW; try looking at mezzo. I was coming to an interface close to it when this guy blows off my immature concept..

Haiku idi Gui

Well, this is my mockup of Sunbird in Haiku Rn. Off to the right side, there is "Bulletin" displaying 1 text and 2 image objects being held from HaikuText. Bulletin is my idea of a shelf/clipboard. It holds items in association with a program but they can be dragged, held and dropped, etc.