He meant that the window only has a single pixel border around it... usually there are several pixels to make it more appealing visually, and give the user more room to "grab" the edge if the window supports that behavior.
I am still unsure about the one pixel edge thing ââ¬â you want space to grab a window from its edge? That seems a bit foreign to me ââ¬â you can grab it from the title bar though :D
Now for Quest (a browser concept ââ¬â incomplete)
I am having icon dillemas so I turned off the desktop. I am toying with haikuized versions of the "Lithos" set. Lithos is a unique set of icons which might maybe possibly fit with Haiku Rn where n is an integer greater than one but less than five.
The icons are rasterized and effected SVG's from OpenClipart.
Yeah ââ¬â I know I am double posting, but this is a new thought.
MediaPlay (there are two versions as I have been obsessing over the window style)
NOTE: ImageShack seems to degrade the quality of my JPEGs. It looks better than it looks. Ignore the artifacts!
P.S. I do not create icons. They aren't mineââ¬âàI am just borrowing them. The same thing for the desktop wallpaper ââ¬â I edited it with some filters and did recoloring but they are not mine.
What I meant, is that everything is anti-aliased.. I cant see any crispness to the images. "Cleartype" might be nice for fonts, but i'm happier with sharper lines for everything else.
I know the way everyone is approaching UIs nowadays is to increase screen res and increase border/font/icon sizes moreso. So icons are twice the size, fonts larger + bolder.. and window frames take up valuable screen estate.
Maybe i'm an eye candy prude, but I like things simple + small.
1600x1200 should give me lots of room for everything I need.
Now ar1000, I'm really happy you're producing mockups for ideas. It shows people are really into putting something into Haiku.
Have a look at your DeskBar(?), you've got a white border there thats a cursor width. on both sides of the application list. imho, that could be removed, maybe more room given to long app names (maybe even subwindow title, like current document?), and even trim the width of the whole window.
What I meant, is that everything is anti-aliased.. I cant see any crispness to the images. "Cleartype" might be nice for fonts, but i'm happier with sharper lines for everything else.
Heh, I completely mis-interpreted then... you just don't like all the anti-aliasing I tend to agree with you somewhat - I find it to be a bit of a waste of CPU time with all that alpha-blending...
When i'm using an XP system, the first thing I do is switch it all back to "Classic View" theme and open the performance settings and choose "best performance" (which turns off all the useless shadows, effects, etc.) - I just can't cope with the "pretty" part when I'm trying to get work done.
I suppose the only thing I can say is that I disagree. I don't consider antialiasing eye candy. I consider it a welcome and eye easing feature of any gui. if it were possible to turn it off for those that don't like it then by all means I support it. if you don't like pretty then set haiku to classic mode. most casual users like softer edges - casual users are the ones I continue. power users will customize all they want and change the settings for the way you interact w/your PC.
And the white border around the app list can be changed, but a generous border in my opinion is necessary and proper to keep because it makes the system feel less cluttered.
I am going to double post. I am just warning you. (Triple if you count the one above)
Now: Haiku at the end of booting.I imagine the computer starting, showing a light blue screen and then this screen almost immediately. Then again ââ¬â I liked BeOS's boot with icons over black thing too :?
Now ââ¬âàa very busy screen. Note that when asking for permission, Haiku could receive a string stating what the purpose was. I also imagine a trusted logo of some kind (like a lock in a browser) maybe a gold vs. silver lock for when "trusted" and MD5-checked processes ask for permission. I am now thinking that pure|icns (icon set) would be excellent for haiku. The icons are great, and clean yet also smooth (something that reminds me of BeOS/Haiku). Remember I didn't make the icons ââ¬â I suck at that, someone else (pure|icns) did.
I guess this makes four ââ¬â no one else is chatting lately.
This shows an aim/chat client dubbed Chat. I like simple names. And, the new popup for the deskbar (which shows the popup menu theme) that I call "ricepaper". It seems haiku-esque no? I also redid the desktop with pure|icns, my new favorite set. I did not create the icons.
P.S. You have to click a couple of times on the image for it to go to the correct resolution on imageshack ââ¬â its odd, but I noticed it about all of my uploads.
Deskbar looks very "dirty" (too noisy background). It also does not follow Fitts' law. Please move it back to the screen corner. Try to use screen space more effectively.
Please remove/replace the window background pattern. If at all, it should not be a regular pattern. That hurts the eye. Look at the screen for ten minutes and the pattern is burned into your eyes. I'm not kidding. OS X was terrible (it looks much better now).
The window title tabs are much too obtrusive. They seem to "glow". That's looking like Enlightenment 17. Colors must be functional, not just nice to look at. These window tabs attract too much attention (they are not important enough).
The rest of the UI is very "sterile" and "cold". The icons don't express this "BeOS fun" most people remember. The icons look "sad". There is too much use of "light gray" colors for everything. I think that a darker color would look better (at least in some places). You also made the mistake to use a gray screen background which makes the whole UI look even colder. There is not enough contrast between buttons and the window background. Please try warmer colors for the UI (and the screen background).
Think of "I have fun", "the sun shines" when designing the UI. ;)
As far as the noise - I aggree. I just thought that people wouldn't like the popup looking like a window - perhaps a slight transparency would be better? The Fitt's law argument is always made and I get it. But,the deskbar is movable and since it bothers me to have the deskbar fixed on the edge, I will keep it where it is for now. I suppose the default could be flush - so I will move it for a screenshot or two. I get the problem with the Deskbar pattern but I don't get your position against the title tabs. I just don't aggree and don't find them obtrusive. The desktop was originaly colored - I will resaturate it (not that I think it is a "mistake", it was done purposly to test the GUI over different Desktop Pictures. It works with gray alright, but I don't even like the gray background myself :D) As far as the icons - I lik pure|icns but they aren't "fun" I guess. I don't parts of the SVG BeOS icons on BeBits. Any suggestions an a more modern BeOS-like set? Modern meaning more colors, less beige, gradients. The overall use of light grey (I prefer off-white) keeps it light. The background is just too intense for it. On a fun background, it looks better. I'll just use the green background from before - its a haiku color and complements the orange and yellow in the title tabs. When I get home I will make the adjustments.
EDIT: To clarify - I like the more colorful icons and the more complicated icons of the BeOS svg set, but I don't like the folder icons or some of the less complex icons (the the Home icon, currently only part of the home folder icon, but still too simple). As you could se im my earlier screenshots, any place where there were BeOS colors, I changed them to Haiku's colors and I tried to get rid of some pastel colors which I feel often fade away in interface design. Icons are difficult - I still like the glass-like icons I used in the first shot, with some exceptions.
Alright, this demonstrates the dreamessenger concept I have. The icons have been changed to Agua and the bg is green again. I think DM is self-explanatory. An alert with a dismiss and a fix/enter/goto button. In this case, the fix button appears because the alert is a problem. One alert at a time. If another is queued up, a blue circle pulses around the icon of the program indicating an alert is in the queue. This is similar to OS X dock bouncing. I have also added a go/action button that I think could be used for text fields that respond. Like in a search or a IM window.
Ok, in addition to the alert concept above, I have to ask for an opinion ââ¬â
which title tab is better? Its hard to tell with the compression imageshack uses but they are different.
By the way, my concept shows the haiku logo in the place of a title because this dialogue box is "official", it is used for system errors, shutdown, logon/off, permission requests, etc. Only Haiku would have access to the ability to put an image into the title bar.
They're too mac like. The icons need to be more BeOS oriented (positioned at 40degrees and less photo like).
Other than that they're great.
And remember, when Haiku is done... Be sure to make your theme installable for everyeone to use.
Well, the icons have always been my biggest issue. I want more modern icons that have a Be feel. I don't like that SVG set on BeBits. I call the theme concept "Orange Satin" ââ¬â I only wish that someone who knew how to make icons made a Haiku Satin set.
As far as the OS X comment ââ¬â there is a resemblance yes. However, this is much more angular. Mac OS X is very very round.
I understand people liking classic BeOS but I guess I am trying to conceptualise what the modern version of the UI will look like. I don't see it being a super-difficult task to implement, but not knowing Haiku's R? goals, I like to think of this as appearing in Haiku Rn, where n is an integer greater than 1 but less than 5. In any case, I think that there are three directions for a UI in general ââ¬â Luna, Glass/Aqua, and 9x/Grey/Linux. While Linux UI's are always evolving, they have a tendency to look more like Windows 9x than not (especially in buttons and controls). My favorite direction is Glass/Aqua. And, since BeOS is kind of Mac's sister (in terms of philosophy, popularity, and goals) I think it fits. But, in the end, whats to stop people from setting their preferences to make Haiku look classic again? Hopefully nothing.
I personally love the look. I think all the yellow and orange is a bit much on the eyes, but a simply color change would be all that is necessary to fix that. I really like the thought that the default button would cycle its gradient instead of pulsing like in Zeta. Very nice work.
This is my idea of how Haiku would look while installing. . .
Note: that the icons are *flipped* versions of Agua, so that the folders' aspect looks like Haiku's. Maybe the developer of the Agua set would donate/liscense altered/tweaked versions of his wonderful set for Haiku?
Note [2]: Agua NOT Aqua! They are found at the iconfactory.
And a utility idea that I referenced in another thread, SystemPoet (like NetInfo Manager, a VERY LIMITED database for Darwin to store secure info).
What i'd really like in the tracker is addition of a new "dock". Like the mac's dock; this one stores shortcuts. But thaz where the similiarities will end; due to these reasons http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html
Instead the dock will have other functionalities:
1)shelf(drag a file/text/image/link; and it'll hold the item as a placeholder; but not save or move it) (and yes; the genie *poof* effect should work)
2)Quick access to search
3)Quick access to workspaces
4)System monitor...?
It should be docked to a screen corner and the icons should be of moderate size; no zooming icons effects or such; instead two arrows on top and bottom will let you see what item will be in focus (those of the twitcher); and the labels will appear over the icons pretty instantly thus reducing the "search for label" fuss if ever.
I get Fitts' law. I get it. Je comprends. There are times when I twist the law. While yes, Fitts' law is accurate, its application in UI design is often muddied by the myraid of other factors to consider. So - a completely Fitts' law approved system is not generally realistic if you want to maintina the standards of UI design AND usabililty.
Interesting article - and while I liked some of it, it is very opinionated. The way UI's should look os debatable.
As far as the icons I have this to say: the more space vailabale the bigger the icons. 64x64 is a good size for default system icons like the Trash, your HD, etc. A shelf is an interesitng concept which I will try to explore in my next visuyalization.
As far as the icons I have this to say: the more space vailabale the bigger the icons. 64x64 is a good size for default system icons like the Trash, your HD, etc. A shelf is an interesitng concept which I will try to explore in my next visuyalization.
I like colors in your mockups. Could you work on tabs in next one?
I get Fitts' law. I get it. Je comprends. There are times when I twist the law. While yes, Fitts' law is accurate, its application in UI design is often muddied by the myraid of other factors to consider. So - a completely Fitts' law approved system is not generally realistic if you want to maintina the standards of UI design AND usabililty.
Interesting article - and while I liked some of it, it is very opinionated. The way UI's should look os debatable.
As far as the icons I have this to say: the more space vailabale the bigger the icons. 64x64 is a good size for default system icons like the Trash, your HD, etc. A shelf is an interesitng concept which I will try to explore in my next visuyalization.
I gotta go for now.
Actually; fitt's law only deals with the time taken to complete an action; but doesnt really deal with convenience or serving the purpose.
I dont think an application should be completely fitt's law compliant; but when stuff like micro-sized icons with rollovers(not there in your mockups..); or precious screen corners unused or stuff like that happen; IMO they should be optimised.
yea i call tog's articles very opinionated too - actually he was one of the core members (i think founder too) of the original Mac Human Interface research watever team; most likely he's angry half his research has been scrapped for fancy looks.
As I said, I understand the law. I know its only about the time to complete a task.
I would disaggree with the fancy looks comment. The Mac's interface has grown. It is less simplistic, which means that it can be more complicated to use. It's not what I would call fancy. It is enough to serve its purpose and be attractive. People often forget that many computer users are in essense, "shallow" about thier computer's UI. And when it coms down to it, most CASUAL users dont mind or even like the complexities that OS X has adopted over Mac's traditional UI. People like eye-candy. People who analyze UI's often care for it less. But, as I hav stressed before, its not about the power-user, its about th 14-year old kid, the thirtysomething mom and dad and the modern buisinessman. Give them a grey, simple fitts' law compatible system and they will be scared of a computer. Give them Mac OS X (which is fairly fitts' compliant) and they will want to expriment and use. I would prefer to see Haiku become a system people want to use, not a Mac OS System 7/Windows 95 relic.
EDIT: I caught the screen corner's comment too. I like my detachted deskbar! Although, I dont beleieve in a tyrranical OS so , users can jam it up in the corner if they like. :?
As I said, I understand the law. I know its only about the time to complete a task.
I would disaggree with the fancy looks comment. The Mac's interface has grown. It is less simplistic, which means that it can be more complicated to use. It's not what I would call fancy. It is enough to serve its purpose and be attractive. People often forget that many computer users are in essense, "shallow" about thier computer's UI. And when it coms down to it, most CASUAL users dont mind or even like the complexities that OS X has adopted over Mac's traditional UI. People like eye-candy. People who analyze UI's often care for it less. But, as I hav stressed before, its not about the power-user, its about th 14-year old kid, the thirtysomething mom and dad and the modern buisinessman. Give them a grey, simple fitts' law compatible system and they will be scared of a computer. Give them Mac OS X (which is fairly fitts' compliant) and they will want to expriment and use. I would prefer to see Haiku become a system people want to use, not a Mac OS System 7/Windows 95 relic.
EDIT: I caught the screen corner's comment too. I like my detachted deskbar! Although, I dont beleieve in a tyrranical OS so , users can jam it up in the corner if they like. :?
I know!! I disagree with bruce tognazzi's comments that its like pepsi (or coke)'s marketting strategy where the fizz lasts for the first few seconds. I believe the same too; however the same doesnt apply for Haiku -- it wont be like a mac; accessible to the laymen. not even linux is used by laymen -- only enthusiasts; otherwise ordinary people use windows or mac. thus; i say beos should be made most "usable". Hope you see MPOV
About the deskbar -- i tried that stuff with some other software in windows; ended up with it back to the screen corners.. thaz y i discourage deskbar detached from corner ^^
Why wouldn't it be like the mac, accessible to the layman? It is supposed to be good. Mac is a better target than Linux as far a UI design (and most components). Linux isnt used by layamn becuase it isn't streamlines or user-friendly enough. Take AmaroK --- what is it? Neither the logo nor the name tell you anything. Where are your apps in /whatever/etc/bin/whatever???Thats no good. Not for end users. SuSe pulls it off on the surface, and I think they are getting better all of the time, but before CASUAL USERS, like 12 y.o. kids or the casual thiurtysomethings will use linux, it needs work! Haiku is already ahead as far a a desktop OS. It is modeled after BeOS, a very user-centric system. We shoudl keep going and target our efforts to the "layman" becuase they are who are important. Poweruser and enthusiuats can fu=iguyre most any OS out - but most popel just can't.
I think none of graphical UI proposals mentioned in this thread looked appealing.
Maybe only one, but that one is using too much rounding. I've an idea, will introduce it better when I get home.
The most important thing is simplicity, thought with no cost of completeness.
So the base principle is somewhat like this: programs will use the haiku API closely, big nono for winamp skin hacks! The UI concept must be so complete, that those are simply unneeded.
In what it should look like... The window manager must be high-tech, this results in various borders and controls you can't find in any other operating system. Notice though, they'll appear only in combination of somebody needing them. So UI appearance must support extensibility. This will result in a one-pixel borders. multi-color theme. transparency support, off for default thought. and only few controls, made so complete thought, that you are able to do the everything you want or need, without reimplementing the window manager. :)
I hate shadows, transparency, rounded edges and too strong gradients in wrong places.
In what it should look like... The window manager must be high-tech, this results in various borders and controls you can't find in any other operating system. Notice though, they'll appear only in combination of somebody needing them. So UI appearance must support extensibility. This will result in a one-pixel borders. multi-color theme. transparency support, off for default thought. and only few controls, made so complete thought, that you are able to do the everything you want or need, without reimplementing the window manager.
What you're saying in simple terms... is that you recommend a extensible user interface. I have a simple question -- what kinda things do u suggest can be added as extensions? There are very few limited things and its best if they're already packaged with the available interface in general..
As it, I could imagine you can already upgrade that window manager to newer versions.
I'm not sure with extensibility. The optimal would be that while being simple by it's interface, you could actually integrate stuff with window manager. (full extensibility) But I'm not sure if that can be achieved without violating simplicity rule too badly. Propably something between that.
Do you mean what I'd like to see made?
I'd like to see in some part is a kind of dockable toolbar combined with that [haiku] -button. Like you could add small toolracks to left of it, and they'd freeze till you explode the whole bar with some command or order one item leave the linked rack. Rack items would be just normal miniapps or such. Like those desktop switcher etc. are and would blend their windows together.
I were thinking this because, if you size one window to full screen. There leaves a small gap of empty canvas up. Between the handle and toolbar.
Another thing which I'll do if nobody does is vim-ui -plugin. A kind of device you could use to control the window manager and whole collection of other programs which have correct script -interface, by pressing some function key and writing a command.
I couldn't reproduce the thing because I found out that can't reproduce the taint I made to my schooll paper with computer well enough.
I noticed that graphical handle could be something. With some monotonic pattern like tame pencil imprint or gray-orange-colored leaves. Each program window could have a kind of optional, wide transparent graphic as well which is monochrome when window is inactive.. :)
I understand the requirement of simplicity ââ¬â it is an important element in visual design. But, the UI must be appealing. It must invite users. The problem with older UI's or the UI example you posted (IMHO) is that it is 1) Flat 2) Not vibrant and 3) Dated. Many older OS's or less sophisticated Linux WM's still stick with basic controls introduced in the older Macintosh's or in Windows 95. Controls and elements that are more intuitive and more inviting are key in attracting users. That is my goal in designing concepts. Recently I came across a concept for KDE4 that demonstrates this understanding of the way casual users want to interact and see their desktop.
Extensibility is important but it must be approached with the philosophy that the UI will be well-documented and feature complete, so that others can use existing features or build complementing ones based on a set of guidelines. There should be no need to tack onto the UI for most users. It should all be there, waiting for developer's to use and user's to interact with (and WANT to interact with)
I must say though, I am having a hard time deciphering exactly what you mean in your post, Cherry.
Well I just did an awesome mockup of Sunbird and tweaked the controls ââ¬â but I didn't save. In the program I use, there is a bug, if you try to edit a textbox with multiple fonts, it crashes!
Well, this is my mockup of Sunbird in Haiku Rn. Off to the right side, there is "Bulletin" displaying 1 text and 2 image objects being held from HaikuText. Bulletin is my idea of a shelf/clipboard. It holds items in association with a program but they can be dragged, held and dropped, etc.
too much BeOS like ...
IT's ok for R1, but i think R2 should definitly go further on UI design.
The yellow tab is an historic stuff ... but it's a big loose of space on the screen. Detach the Deskbar is definitly taking too much space on the desktop too (you will not put smething between Deskbar and the screen border, so you loose this place)
I think Deskbar should stay on the top. Top right, top left, i don't care ... but it's just simplier and smoother to your hand to scroll your mouse to the top that to the bottom. Test it, you'll see by yourself :)
Pulldown menus in BeOS behave a very nice way to me ! Please please don't touch them ! Keep them simple or why not gaving them a small to color style (http://www.beosfrance.com/muckups/Net++/Gonx%20style/net++01.jpg - forget about the small shadow, even if it gaves it a little plus).
Icon on the desktop in 64x64 is way too big ! 48x48, not more ! See on a laptop 14" 1024x768 what a 64x64 icons took. If you have too hard drive icon + DVD drive + USB pendrive + home folder + Trash + 110px for the Deskbar, those icons took all the space on the top ! (on the base of 90px for giving 15 px on right and left of it for the space betwwen two icons)
The trash must stay on the bottom ! It's not an icon you clic on every 30 minutes, like Home or hard drive ones. It doesn't have to pullote your quick view one those important one.
A special care on System Preferences windows and prompt menu must be taken in order to minimise the keyboard use. That was the big plus on BeOS between other OSes during what we call "the good days".
This could sounds crazy from a BeOS user but the explorer sidebar of Windows is something we should think about cause all in all, it's very conveignant. For example: Only mp3s on the actual folder ? "Play files" and "equeue files" buttons is a good idea to me. Only JPEG ? "Start a slideshow" ! One file selected ? "Send by mail" One clic and the job is done !
The secondary panel in Xp with quick links to disks listing or network favorites sucks ! File Infos sucks even more !! (who cares knowing what the mimetype or weight of the file is ???)
My first 0,2 ââ¬... for a good mr everybody experience
I dont see how detaching the deskbar can provide any extra functionality over attached deskbar other than screenshots and mock screenshots..
@beosfrance: it doesnt matter if its ancient or no, as long as its productive
The reason why its easier to browse up over down, is because the mouse is in front of us : when we move cursor up, we're stretching our hand to a more open (and relaxed) position. When we move it down, we're crowding our hands towards our body which creates a prob
as for icons on desktop.... i kinda agree, but instead i say - SCRAP the desktop metaphor. I was mentally experimenting with this concept and found the mezzo desktop to amplify some of my points of view
I agree that recycle bin isn't frequently accessed, but the way you addressed the problem is pretty much the opposite : the four screen corners are the most accessible spots; proven by Fitt's Law. You can just toss your mouse at those directions and you'll access those spots. Placing recycle bin in the bottom, increases its accessibility not lessen.
As for explorer sidebar, i disagree.... many barely use it, it hogs a lot of usable workspace. I disabled the toolbars and sidebar in my windows explorer; and i find it much more usable than ever...
As for the "play files" and "enqueue files" things - we can just embed it into the context menu
About the file info; there are MANY who do. Whenever i burn my CDs, i have to check for this stuff. File type, is necessary by all means and i dont need to prove why IMO.. on the other hand i think enabling extensions can be more usable than to check the file info just for its extension (which was a painful experience to me when i first used a PC)
I dont understand the "special care.." part. Can you please elaborate?
Well, as I have said before, I prefer it detached (the deskbar) so that is how I would set my desktop. And i prefer large icons, so that is how I would set them. There would be nothing to prevent you from using tiny 16x16 icons, HUGE 256x256 icons or anything in between. Further, I like the orange/yellow tab. Its part of the Haiku/BeOS system. As far as the trashcan, you can certainly place it wherever you like.
Oh, and icons can be held in Bulletin, they would be stored in a Tracker bubble. Clippings from HaikuText are stored in a HaikuText bubble, and clippings from Media Viewer are stored in a Media Viewer bubble, etc . .
P.S. ââ¬â I like to refrain from thinking what "must stay" or "must ______" because I feel that the computer should adapt to the habits, preferences, and style of the user. The user should not have to adapt to the computer. A computer is our digital servant, not our master.
The Deskbar should be in the corner, makes it easier to hit and as far as I can see the margins serve no real purpose. Nice theme and fonts though. The only suggestion I have is for the Deskbar and that is to suggest that the trash icon should become a part of it instead of being on the desktop. It's a lot more accessible that way.
alright, so my idea for the trashcan is this: the deskbar is clear (SEE FIGURE 1). The trash appears when a user selectes a file (or maybe when he/she beings dragging) it fades in. (SEE FIGURE 2) When the user enteres a certain radius, the trashcan "activates" (FIGURES 3,4) When the user puts the file into the trash, the whole process reverts quickly and "engulfs the file". When this is complete, the file being dragged disappears (well, on a super-ideal system, it would fade, but . . . ) - - Oh, ignore the desktop's trashcan, I just forgot to tun it off.
FIGURE 1:
FIGURE 2:
FIGURE 3:
FIGURE 4:
FIGURE 5:
P.S. : Yeah, I know ââ¬â everyone but me likes the deskbar attached. So, fine already, here is what it would look like:
alright, so my idea for the trashcan is this: the deskbar is clear (SEE FIGURE 1). The trash appears when a user selectes a file (or maybe when he/she beings dragging) it fades in. (SEE FIGURE 2) When the user enteres a certain radius, the trashcan "activates" (FIGURES 3,4) When the user puts the file into the trash, the whole process reverts quickly and "engulfs the file". When this is complete, the file being dragged disappears (well, on a super-ideal system, it would fade, but . . . ) - - Oh, ignore the desktop's trashcan, I just forgot to tun it off.
FIGURE 1:
FIGURE 2:
FIGURE 3:
FIGURE 4:
FIGURE 5:
P.S. : Yeah, I know ââ¬â everyone but me likes the deskbar attached. So, fine already, here is what it would look like:
Looks really cool. You've definitely got a talent for design. My only problem with it is that there's no way to access the trash can when a file isn't selected, so in that sense doesn't it not offer anything over a right click -> "Move to trash"?
If you enter the deskbar with an empty mouse, the small icon with a label would appear, like in FIGURE 2. When you hovered over it, the icon would saturate, but not expand. Pointing and clicking on an icon is more precise than dragging, so you can have a smaller target.
Comments
Haiku idi Gui
I canââ¬â¢t see one pixel edge :cry:
huh?
What? What is a "pixel edge" exactly?
Re: huh?
He meant that the window only has a single pixel border around it... usually there are several pixels to make it more appealing visually, and give the user more room to "grab" the edge if the window supports that behavior.
Next . .
I am still unsure about the one pixel edge thing ââ¬â you want space to grab a window from its edge? That seems a bit foreign to me ââ¬â you can grab it from the title bar though :D
Now for Quest (a browser concept ââ¬â incomplete)
I am having icon dillemas so I turned off the desktop. I am toying with haikuized versions of the "Lithos" set. Lithos is a unique set of icons which might maybe possibly fit with Haiku Rn where n is an integer greater than one but less than five.
The icons are rasterized and effected SVG's from OpenClipart.
MediaPlay
Yeah ââ¬â I know I am double posting, but this is a new thought.
MediaPlay (there are two versions as I have been obsessing over the window style)
NOTE: ImageShack seems to degrade the quality of my JPEGs. It looks better than it looks. Ignore the artifacts!
P.S. I do not create icons. They aren't mineââ¬âàI am just borrowing them. The same thing for the desktop wallpaper ââ¬â I edited it with some filters and did recoloring but they are not mine.
Re: huh?
What I meant, is that everything is anti-aliased.. I cant see any crispness to the images. "Cleartype" might be nice for fonts, but i'm happier with sharper lines for everything else.
I know the way everyone is approaching UIs nowadays is to increase screen res and increase border/font/icon sizes moreso. So icons are twice the size, fonts larger + bolder.. and window frames take up valuable screen estate.
Maybe i'm an eye candy prude, but I like things simple + small.
1600x1200 should give me lots of room for everything I need.
Now ar1000, I'm really happy you're producing mockups for ideas. It shows people are really into putting something into Haiku.
Have a look at your DeskBar(?), you've got a white border there thats a cursor width. on both sides of the application list. imho, that could be removed, maybe more room given to long app names (maybe even subwindow title, like current document?), and even trim the width of the whole window.
*2c
Re: huh?
Heh, I completely mis-interpreted then... you just don't like all the anti-aliasing I tend to agree with you somewhat - I find it to be a bit of a waste of CPU time with all that alpha-blending...
When i'm using an XP system, the first thing I do is switch it all back to "Classic View" theme and open the performance settings and choose "best performance" (which turns off all the useless shadows, effects, etc.) - I just can't cope with the "pretty" part when I'm trying to get work done.
ok
I suppose the only thing I can say is that I disagree. I don't consider antialiasing eye candy. I consider it a welcome and eye easing feature of any gui. if it were possible to turn it off for those that don't like it then by all means I support it. if you don't like pretty then set haiku to classic mode. most casual users like softer edges - casual users are the ones I continue. power users will customize all they want and change the settings for the way you interact w/your PC.
And the white border around the app list can be changed, but a generous border in my opinion is necessary and proper to keep because it makes the system feel less cluttered.
Re: ok
One man's pretty, is another ma..
anyhow, dont let that stop you posting pics.. still lovely work :) i'm interested if you have any dockbert like ideas?
Re: ok
What is a dockbert?
Answered my own question. n/m.
I am going to double post again!
I am going to double post. I am just warning you. (Triple if you count the one above)
Now: Haiku at the end of booting.I imagine the computer starting, showing a light blue screen and then this screen almost immediately. Then again ââ¬â I liked BeOS's boot with icons over black thing too :?
TRIPLE!
Now ââ¬âàa very busy screen. Note that when asking for permission, Haiku could receive a string stating what the purpose was. I also imagine a trusted logo of some kind (like a lock in a browser) maybe a gold vs. silver lock for when "trusted" and MD5-checked processes ask for permission. I am now thinking that pure|icns (icon set) would be excellent for haiku. The icons are great, and clean yet also smooth (something that reminds me of BeOS/Haiku). Remember I didn't make the icons ââ¬â I suck at that, someone else (pure|icns) did.
This makes four!
I guess this makes four ââ¬â no one else is chatting lately.
This shows an aim/chat client dubbed Chat. I like simple names. And, the new popup for the deskbar (which shows the popup menu theme) that I call "ricepaper". It seems haiku-esque no? I also redid the desktop with pure|icns, my new favorite set. I did not create the icons.
P.S. You have to click a couple of times on the image for it to go to the correct resolution on imageshack ââ¬â its odd, but I noticed it about all of my uploads.
Haiku idi Gui
Please don't get me wrong. This should help you:
Deskbar looks very "dirty" (too noisy background). It also does not follow Fitts' law. Please move it back to the screen corner. Try to use screen space more effectively.
Please remove/replace the window background pattern. If at all, it should not be a regular pattern. That hurts the eye. Look at the screen for ten minutes and the pattern is burned into your eyes. I'm not kidding. OS X was terrible (it looks much better now).
The window title tabs are much too obtrusive. They seem to "glow". That's looking like Enlightenment 17. Colors must be functional, not just nice to look at. These window tabs attract too much attention (they are not important enough).
The rest of the UI is very "sterile" and "cold". The icons don't express this "BeOS fun" most people remember. The icons look "sad". There is too much use of "light gray" colors for everything. I think that a darker color would look better (at least in some places). You also made the mistake to use a gray screen background which makes the whole UI look even colder. There is not enough contrast between buttons and the window background. Please try warmer colors for the UI (and the screen background).
Think of "I have fun", "the sun shines" when designing the UI. ;)
Haiku idi Gui
As far as the noise - I aggree. I just thought that people wouldn't like the popup looking like a window - perhaps a slight transparency would be better? The Fitt's law argument is always made and I get it. But,the deskbar is movable and since it bothers me to have the deskbar fixed on the edge, I will keep it where it is for now. I suppose the default could be flush - so I will move it for a screenshot or two. I get the problem with the Deskbar pattern but I don't get your position against the title tabs. I just don't aggree and don't find them obtrusive. The desktop was originaly colored - I will resaturate it (not that I think it is a "mistake", it was done purposly to test the GUI over different Desktop Pictures. It works with gray alright, but I don't even like the gray background myself :D) As far as the icons - I lik pure|icns but they aren't "fun" I guess. I don't parts of the SVG BeOS icons on BeBits. Any suggestions an a more modern BeOS-like set? Modern meaning more colors, less beige, gradients. The overall use of light grey (I prefer off-white) keeps it light. The background is just too intense for it. On a fun background, it looks better. I'll just use the green background from before - its a haiku color and complements the orange and yellow in the title tabs. When I get home I will make the adjustments.
EDIT: To clarify - I like the more colorful icons and the more complicated icons of the BeOS svg set, but I don't like the folder icons or some of the less complex icons (the the Home icon, currently only part of the home folder icon, but still too simple). As you could se im my earlier screenshots, any place where there were BeOS colors, I changed them to Haiku's colors and I tried to get rid of some pastel colors which I feel often fade away in interface design. Icons are difficult - I still like the glass-like icons I used in the first shot, with some exceptions.
Haiku idi Gui
Alright, this demonstrates the dreamessenger concept I have. The icons have been changed to Agua and the bg is green again. I think DM is self-explanatory. An alert with a dismiss and a fix/enter/goto button. In this case, the fix button appears because the alert is a problem. One alert at a time. If another is queued up, a blue circle pulses around the icon of the program indicating an alert is in the queue. This is similar to OS X dock bouncing. I have also added a go/action button that I think could be used for text fields that respond. Like in a search or a IM window.
Title Tabs
Ok, in addition to the alert concept above, I have to ask for an opinion ââ¬â
which title tab is better? Its hard to tell with the compression imageshack uses but they are different.
By the way, my concept shows the haiku logo in the place of a title because this dialogue box is "official", it is used for system errors, shutdown, logon/off, permission requests, etc. Only Haiku would have access to the ability to put an image into the title bar.
Haiku idi Gui
IMHO, the right one is a little bit better.
Haiku idi Gui
Ok ââ¬â people aren't too active in this discussion right now but, here is a sample of the controls I visualise so far:
I see the default buttons making a cycle effect. In mac they pulse, but I like the idea of the gradient slowly cycling in the default button.
Haiku idi Gui
That is beautiful.
Haiku idi Gui
They're too mac like. The icons need to be more BeOS oriented (positioned at 40degrees and less photo like).
Other than that they're great.
And remember, when Haiku is done... Be sure to make your theme installable for everyeone to use.
Haiku idi Gui
I only like the selected radiobox. That's all.
Haiku idi Gui
Please don't laugh at me, but I love the original theme. These screenshots are looks like the MacOS X Aqua with yellow color scheme.
But nice work, anyway! :D
Haiku idi Gui
Well, the icons have always been my biggest issue. I want more modern icons that have a Be feel. I don't like that SVG set on BeBits. I call the theme concept "Orange Satin" ââ¬â I only wish that someone who knew how to make icons made a Haiku Satin set.
As far as the OS X comment ââ¬â there is a resemblance yes. However, this is much more angular. Mac OS X is very very round.
I understand people liking classic BeOS but I guess I am trying to conceptualise what the modern version of the UI will look like. I don't see it being a super-difficult task to implement, but not knowing Haiku's R? goals, I like to think of this as appearing in Haiku Rn, where n is an integer greater than 1 but less than 5. In any case, I think that there are three directions for a UI in general ââ¬â Luna, Glass/Aqua, and 9x/Grey/Linux. While Linux UI's are always evolving, they have a tendency to look more like Windows 9x than not (especially in buttons and controls). My favorite direction is Glass/Aqua. And, since BeOS is kind of Mac's sister (in terms of philosophy, popularity, and goals) I think it fits. But, in the end, whats to stop people from setting their preferences to make Haiku look classic again? Hopefully nothing.
Haiku idi Gui
I personally love the look. I think all the yellow and orange is a bit much on the eyes, but a simply color change would be all that is necessary to fix that. I really like the thought that the default button would cycle its gradient instead of pulsing like in Zeta. Very nice work.
Installing . .
This is my idea of how Haiku would look while installing. . .
Note: that the icons are *flipped* versions of Agua, so that the folders' aspect looks like Haiku's. Maybe the developer of the Agua set would donate/liscense altered/tweaked versions of his wonderful set for Haiku?
Note [2]: Agua NOT Aqua! They are found at the iconfactory.
And a utility idea that I referenced in another thread, SystemPoet (like NetInfo Manager, a VERY LIMITED database for Darwin to store secure info).
Haiku idi Gui
I'm not a fan of big icons... though it seems good nuff.
http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html
I love this thing. It helps a lot in explaining what a "usable interface" should be like.
What i'd really like in the tracker is addition of a new "dock". Like the mac's dock; this one stores shortcuts. But thaz where the similiarities will end; due to these reasons
http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html
Instead the dock will have other functionalities:
1)shelf(drag a file/text/image/link; and it'll hold the item as a placeholder; but not save or move it) (and yes; the genie *poof* effect should work)
2)Quick access to search
3)Quick access to workspaces
4)System monitor...?
It should be docked to a screen corner and the icons should be of moderate size; no zooming icons effects or such; instead two arrows on top and bottom will let you see what item will be in focus (those of the twitcher); and the labels will appear over the icons pretty instantly thus reducing the "search for label" fuss if ever.
Haiku idi Gui
I get Fitts' law. I get it. Je comprends. There are times when I twist the law. While yes, Fitts' law is accurate, its application in UI design is often muddied by the myraid of other factors to consider. So - a completely Fitts' law approved system is not generally realistic if you want to maintina the standards of UI design AND usabililty.
Interesting article - and while I liked some of it, it is very opinionated. The way UI's should look os debatable.
As far as the icons I have this to say: the more space vailabale the bigger the icons. 64x64 is a good size for default system icons like the Trash, your HD, etc. A shelf is an interesitng concept which I will try to explore in my next visuyalization.
I gotta go for now.
Haiku idi Gui
I like colors in your mockups. Could you work on tabs in next one?
Haiku idi Gui
Actually; fitt's law only deals with the time taken to complete an action; but doesnt really deal with convenience or serving the purpose.
I dont think an application should be completely fitt's law compliant; but when stuff like micro-sized icons with rollovers(not there in your mockups..); or precious screen corners unused or stuff like that happen; IMO they should be optimised.
yea i call tog's articles very opinionated too - actually he was one of the core members (i think founder too) of the original Mac Human Interface research watever team; most likely he's angry half his research has been scrapped for fancy looks.
Shelf is actually a concept introduced in NeXTSTEP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelf_%28computing%29
I'm not against big icons -- its just that im not too fanatic of em (makes me feel full if they're too big :()
Haiku idi Gui
As I said, I understand the law. I know its only about the time to complete a task.
I would disaggree with the fancy looks comment. The Mac's interface has grown. It is less simplistic, which means that it can be more complicated to use. It's not what I would call fancy. It is enough to serve its purpose and be attractive. People often forget that many computer users are in essense, "shallow" about thier computer's UI. And when it coms down to it, most CASUAL users dont mind or even like the complexities that OS X has adopted over Mac's traditional UI. People like eye-candy. People who analyze UI's often care for it less. But, as I hav stressed before, its not about the power-user, its about th 14-year old kid, the thirtysomething mom and dad and the modern buisinessman. Give them a grey, simple fitts' law compatible system and they will be scared of a computer. Give them Mac OS X (which is fairly fitts' compliant) and they will want to expriment and use. I would prefer to see Haiku become a system people want to use, not a Mac OS System 7/Windows 95 relic.
EDIT: I caught the screen corner's comment too. I like my detachted deskbar! Although, I dont beleieve in a tyrranical OS so , users can jam it up in the corner if they like. :?
Haiku idi Gui
I know!! I disagree with bruce tognazzi's comments that its like pepsi (or coke)'s marketting strategy where the fizz lasts for the first few seconds. I believe the same too; however the same doesnt apply for Haiku -- it wont be like a mac; accessible to the laymen. not even linux is used by laymen -- only enthusiasts; otherwise ordinary people use windows or mac. thus; i say beos should be made most "usable". Hope you see MPOV
About the deskbar -- i tried that stuff with some other software in windows; ended up with it back to the screen corners.. thaz y i discourage deskbar detached from corner ^^
Haiku idi Gui
Why wouldn't it be like the mac, accessible to the layman? It is supposed to be good. Mac is a better target than Linux as far a UI design (and most components). Linux isnt used by layamn becuase it isn't streamlines or user-friendly enough. Take AmaroK --- what is it? Neither the logo nor the name tell you anything. Where are your apps in /whatever/etc/bin/whatever???Thats no good. Not for end users. SuSe pulls it off on the surface, and I think they are getting better all of the time, but before CASUAL USERS, like 12 y.o. kids or the casual thiurtysomethings will use linux, it needs work! Haiku is already ahead as far a a desktop OS. It is modeled after BeOS, a very user-centric system. We shoudl keep going and target our efforts to the "layman" becuase they are who are important. Poweruser and enthusiuats can fu=iguyre most any OS out - but most popel just can't.
Haiku idi Gui
hmm..... no comment :P
(what bout me? am 16..)
Haiku idi Gui
I think none of graphical UI proposals mentioned in this thread looked appealing.
Maybe only one, but that one is using too much rounding. I've an idea, will introduce it better when I get home.
The most important thing is simplicity, thought with no cost of completeness.
So the base principle is somewhat like this: programs will use the haiku API closely, big nono for winamp skin hacks! The UI concept must be so complete, that those are simply unneeded.
In what it should look like... The window manager must be high-tech, this results in various borders and controls you can't find in any other operating system. Notice though, they'll appear only in combination of somebody needing them. So UI appearance must support extensibility. This will result in a one-pixel borders. multi-color theme. transparency support, off for default thought. and only few controls, made so complete thought, that you are able to do the everything you want or need, without reimplementing the window manager. :)
I hate shadows, transparency, rounded edges and too strong gradients in wrong places.
Haiku idi Gui
What you're saying in simple terms... is that you recommend a extensible user interface. I have a simple question -- what kinda things do u suggest can be added as extensions? There are very few limited things and its best if they're already packaged with the available interface in general..
Haiku idi Gui
As it, I could imagine you can already upgrade that window manager to newer versions.
I'm not sure with extensibility. The optimal would be that while being simple by it's interface, you could actually integrate stuff with window manager. (full extensibility) But I'm not sure if that can be achieved without violating simplicity rule too badly. Propably something between that.
Do you mean what I'd like to see made?
I'd like to see in some part is a kind of dockable toolbar combined with that [haiku] -button. Like you could add small toolracks to left of it, and they'd freeze till you explode the whole bar with some command or order one item leave the linked rack. Rack items would be just normal miniapps or such. Like those desktop switcher etc. are and would blend their windows together.
I were thinking this because, if you size one window to full screen. There leaves a small gap of empty canvas up. Between the handle and toolbar.
Another thing which I'll do if nobody does is vim-ui -plugin. A kind of device you could use to control the window manager and whole collection of other programs which have correct script -interface, by pressing some function key and writing a command.
I couldn't reproduce the thing because I found out that can't reproduce the taint I made to my schooll paper with computer well enough.
I noticed that graphical handle could be something. With some monotonic pattern like tame pencil imprint or gray-orange-colored leaves. Each program window could have a kind of optional, wide transparent graphic as well which is monochrome when window is inactive.. :)
Otherwise it could bo something like this, with sharper edges, especially on the handle:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/zumi/haiku-gui-mockup/4.png
Maybe very, very tame slightly circular gradient on gray components. Which would be auto-off in under 24bit -display modes.
Edit: found something similar from net, and made little photo-manipulation. :)
Maybe the green is too strong in that image. But I think haiku should look something like this in R2. Just better.
Haiku idi Gui
I understand the requirement of simplicity ââ¬â it is an important element in visual design. But, the UI must be appealing. It must invite users. The problem with older UI's or the UI example you posted (IMHO) is that it is 1) Flat 2) Not vibrant and 3) Dated. Many older OS's or less sophisticated Linux WM's still stick with basic controls introduced in the older Macintosh's or in Windows 95. Controls and elements that are more intuitive and more inviting are key in attracting users. That is my goal in designing concepts. Recently I came across a concept for KDE4 that demonstrates this understanding of the way casual users want to interact and see their desktop.
Extensibility is important but it must be approached with the philosophy that the UI will be well-documented and feature complete, so that others can use existing features or build complementing ones based on a set of guidelines. There should be no need to tack onto the UI for most users. It should all be there, waiting for developer's to use and user's to interact with (and WANT to interact with)
I must say though, I am having a hard time deciphering exactly what you mean in your post, Cherry.
Haiku idi Gui
Well I just did an awesome mockup of Sunbird and tweaked the controls ââ¬â but I didn't save. In the program I use, there is a bug, if you try to edit a textbox with multiple fonts, it crashes!
Haiku idi Gui
Well, this is my mockup of Sunbird in Haiku Rn. Off to the right side, there is "Bulletin" displaying 1 text and 2 image objects being held from HaikuText. Bulletin is my idea of a shelf/clipboard. It holds items in association with a program but they can be dragged, held and dropped, etc.
Haiku idi Gui
I like the bulletin thing...
can you try to improve it to suit keeping icons too?
BTW; try looking at mezzo. I was coming to an interface close to it when this guy blows off my immature concept..
Haiku idi Gui
too much BeOS like ...
IT's ok for R1, but i think R2 should definitly go further on UI design.
The yellow tab is an historic stuff ... but it's a big loose of space on the screen. Detach the Deskbar is definitly taking too much space on the desktop too (you will not put smething between Deskbar and the screen border, so you loose this place)
I think Deskbar should stay on the top. Top right, top left, i don't care ... but it's just simplier and smoother to your hand to scroll your mouse to the top that to the bottom. Test it, you'll see by yourself :)
Pulldown menus in BeOS behave a very nice way to me ! Please please don't touch them ! Keep them simple or why not gaving them a small to color style (http://www.beosfrance.com/muckups/Net++/Gonx%20style/net++01.jpg - forget about the small shadow, even if it gaves it a little plus).
Icon on the desktop in 64x64 is way too big ! 48x48, not more ! See on a laptop 14" 1024x768 what a 64x64 icons took. If you have too hard drive icon + DVD drive + USB pendrive + home folder + Trash + 110px for the Deskbar, those icons took all the space on the top ! (on the base of 90px for giving 15 px on right and left of it for the space betwwen two icons)
The trash must stay on the bottom ! It's not an icon you clic on every 30 minutes, like Home or hard drive ones. It doesn't have to pullote your quick view one those important one.
A special care on System Preferences windows and prompt menu must be taken in order to minimise the keyboard use. That was the big plus on BeOS between other OSes during what we call "the good days".
This could sounds crazy from a BeOS user but the explorer sidebar of Windows is something we should think about cause all in all, it's very conveignant. For example: Only mp3s on the actual folder ? "Play files" and "equeue files" buttons is a good idea to me. Only JPEG ? "Start a slideshow" ! One file selected ? "Send by mail" One clic and the job is done !
The secondary panel in Xp with quick links to disks listing or network favorites sucks ! File Infos sucks even more !! (who cares knowing what the mimetype or weight of the file is ???)
My first 0,2 ââ¬... for a good mr everybody experience
Haiku idi Gui
detaching the taskbar should be an option. default = off. But i think one should be able to do it.
Haiku idi Gui
I dont see how detaching the deskbar can provide any extra functionality over attached deskbar other than screenshots and mock screenshots..
@beosfrance: it doesnt matter if its ancient or no, as long as its productive
The reason why its easier to browse up over down, is because the mouse is in front of us : when we move cursor up, we're stretching our hand to a more open (and relaxed) position. When we move it down, we're crowding our hands towards our body which creates a prob
as for icons on desktop.... i kinda agree, but instead i say - SCRAP the desktop metaphor. I was mentally experimenting with this concept and found the mezzo desktop to amplify some of my points of view
I agree that recycle bin isn't frequently accessed, but the way you addressed the problem is pretty much the opposite : the four screen corners are the most accessible spots; proven by Fitt's Law. You can just toss your mouse at those directions and you'll access those spots. Placing recycle bin in the bottom, increases its accessibility not lessen.
As for explorer sidebar, i disagree.... many barely use it, it hogs a lot of usable workspace. I disabled the toolbars and sidebar in my windows explorer; and i find it much more usable than ever...
As for the "play files" and "enqueue files" things - we can just embed it into the context menu
About the file info; there are MANY who do. Whenever i burn my CDs, i have to check for this stuff. File type, is necessary by all means and i dont need to prove why IMO.. on the other hand i think enabling extensions can be more usable than to check the file info just for its extension (which was a painful experience to me when i first used a PC)
I dont understand the "special care.." part. Can you please elaborate?
Haiku idi Gui
Well, as I have said before, I prefer it detached (the deskbar) so that is how I would set my desktop. And i prefer large icons, so that is how I would set them. There would be nothing to prevent you from using tiny 16x16 icons, HUGE 256x256 icons or anything in between. Further, I like the orange/yellow tab. Its part of the Haiku/BeOS system. As far as the trashcan, you can certainly place it wherever you like.
Oh, and icons can be held in Bulletin, they would be stored in a Tracker bubble. Clippings from HaikuText are stored in a HaikuText bubble, and clippings from Media Viewer are stored in a Media Viewer bubble, etc . .
P.S. ââ¬â I like to refrain from thinking what "must stay" or "must ______" because I feel that the computer should adapt to the habits, preferences, and style of the user. The user should not have to adapt to the computer. A computer is our digital servant, not our master.
Haiku idi Gui
The Deskbar should be in the corner, makes it easier to hit and as far as I can see the margins serve no real purpose. Nice theme and fonts though. The only suggestion I have is for the Deskbar and that is to suggest that the trash icon should become a part of it instead of being on the desktop. It's a lot more accessible that way.
Haiku idi Gui
good idea ââ¬â i'll try it
Haiku idi Gui
alright, so my idea for the trashcan is this: the deskbar is clear (SEE FIGURE 1). The trash appears when a user selectes a file (or maybe when he/she beings dragging) it fades in. (SEE FIGURE 2) When the user enteres a certain radius, the trashcan "activates" (FIGURES 3,4) When the user puts the file into the trash, the whole process reverts quickly and "engulfs the file". When this is complete, the file being dragged disappears (well, on a super-ideal system, it would fade, but . . . ) - - Oh, ignore the desktop's trashcan, I just forgot to tun it off.
FIGURE 1:
FIGURE 2:
FIGURE 3:
FIGURE 4:
FIGURE 5:
P.S. : Yeah, I know ââ¬â everyone but me likes the deskbar attached. So, fine already, here is what it would look like:
Haiku idi Gui
Looks really cool. You've definitely got a talent for design. My only problem with it is that there's no way to access the trash can when a file isn't selected, so in that sense doesn't it not offer anything over a right click -> "Move to trash"?
Haiku idi Gui
If you enter the deskbar with an empty mouse, the small icon with a label would appear, like in FIGURE 2. When you hovered over it, the icon would saturate, but not expand. Pointing and clicking on an icon is more precise than dragging, so you can have a smaller target.