With bebits and haikuware gone, Haiku needs a software Center. Ubuntu, OS X, and Windows all have one so I think it's time Haiku had one. This is something beta 1 needs
I am involved in redesigning the web version to be more end user/consumer friendly.
I would be keen to hear feedback about depot.haiku-os.org as I am going to report back to the main developer on what we are currently missing compared to other web appstores.
It may be easy to download from HaikuDepot. But so far I have not be able to figure out how to add my files (usually in .ZIP format) to it.
I am not saying it can't be done, I am saying I have spent about a hour reading the documentation links and still have not figured out what I need to do.
Compared to BeBits and HaikuWare that is terrible, as it took me less than 10 minutes each when they came out to figure how to upload a file. Is there an easy guide to HaikuDepot anywhere or do I have to keep on reading the present docs?
There is no automatic way at the moment as you need a HKPG and the automatic Haiku Package Build System still needs heavy development for this, yet the development of it is stalled and none of the core developers are intrested in working on it. It is probably the biggest thing that is holding back beta1.
You can try asking Lelldorin where he is publishing his HPKG Creator app.
Otherwise you can use HaikuPorter to create a HPKG file, although that is not as easy as using the HPKG Creator app.
Once you have got the HPKG file, you need to track down a Haiku developer, so they can manually add it or you could contact Humdinger and get him to add it.
Haiku Depot Server (HDS) only interfaces with repositories that are hosting HPKG packages. Currently, it only does that for the HaikuPorts repo, which is also currently AFAIK the only repo the HaikuDepot app polls for package information. HDS provides metadata like screenshots, icons, translations, categories, user comments and rating.
The plan is to develop the HDS site to become more like the usual software site, nicely designed, where people can also download packages directly.
You won't be able to upload ZIPs in any case. You can offer your HPKGs to repos like Guest One's or maybe bbjimmy's repo or create your own, see bbjimmy's article. To the HaikuPorts repo, only Haiku committers are able to upload, as that hosts all things needed to build Haiku. Obviously, the Haiku project should create its own, private repo for those packages, but nobody did so far...
I am slowly working my repo to be able to add .hpkg files from other people. The HDS server needs to start working with third party repos for this to be meaningful.
see http://fatelk.com/repo/packages for the first baby steps. now to add screenshots, feed-back comments, ratings, and search/categories to the repo. slowly, but surely.
Okay, now I am feeling stupid. I followed the links to find the only copy of Creator was on HaikuWare as far as I can tell. I tried checking the HaikuDepot website but it does not show up there either.
Is there anywhere else I can download it from?
Am I just using BeSly wrong?
Please note: I have been using BeOS and Haiku-OS for years, if it is so much trouble for me, guess what new users feel like.
I also tried the author's website, and while he has a number of prgrams there, no Creator.
I have a copy. Unfortunately, it does not run, missing symbol. meaning that it needs to be re-compiled on a later version of haiku. The author does not have a website, so HPKGCreator seems to be missing for the time being. This seems to be your best bet at the moment:
the download file from the HPKG creator are changed to our downoad site of BeSly, but bbjimmy
message is correct, this version does not run on current nightlys. If i get yab against runing on a current nightly (i does not get it today) i will make a rebuild.
I have a copy. Unfortunately, it does not run, missing symbol. meaning that it needs to be re-compiled on a later version of haiku. The author does not have a website, so HPKGCreator seems to be missing for the time being. This seems to be your best bet at the moment:
This is not correct: http://www.lelldorin.de, but i does not have files to download from there, because i stored all on haikuware. So haikuware is gone, there is of the most apps no download available any more. If you have luck check out the download page of http://www.besly.de
I don't see it on the BeSly site, even if it does not work on the newest Haiku, I can re-install Alpha 3 to a partition if you can supply the old version.
Also is the source code also available, if yes I might learn YABasic just to get it running.
I don't see it on the BeSly site, even if it does not work on the newest Haiku, I can re-install Alpha 3 to a partition if you can supply the old version.
Also is the source code also available, if yes I might learn YABasic just to get it running.
The current version is build on Haiku nightly with package management, now a version past alpha 4.1. It does not run on alpha 3 or 4.1, because there is no package management included.
And yes i have the source, but not inclueded at the moment. I think the app need some changes because there are many thinks changed on the package management system sience i release this version.
And you need to learn "yab" not "yabasic" to write on this app.
I never get many feedback, so i think that people does ot use this app.
If i get the BuildFactory running on my current Haiku nightly i will create a new build and place them on BeSly in the Downloads section
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
As haikuporter recipes are not very easy to write (unfortunately, there is no way around this to get things done right and avoid people trying to take shortcuts), some people prefer to avoid going through the process. In that case, you can try to get your package added to other repositories: Guest One's, bbjimmy's, or if your software is plain old zip, my little "beosarchive" page. For the latter, just contact me and we'll see what can be done. For the two others I dont know what their policies are.
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
This is not true. It was made clear to me when I tried to get my Bookmarker app included in haikuports that the only way yab apps were welcome is if they were destributed in source code and not built into a binary. That is why it is not in haikuports and will not be in the main haiku repository.
If this policy has changed, please let me know. I would gladly have my apps in haikuports, I just don't want the user to see my code unless he is interested enough to visit my github repo. Destributing in source code is like letting your underwear show, it just isn't done in polite company.
Now, where is the best place to ask to host the packages for me as I don't have my own repository?
For Yab apps, you can contact bbjimmy and for C++ apps you can contact humdinger.
http://fatelk.com/repo is for any app that doesn't fit the requirements of the haikuports "club". I have not built the back-end up enough to let you upload an .hpkg file yet, but if you email it to me, I will add it to the repo.
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
If this needed to tell the repro that the app is on your server? I think i am my own vendor of my own apps. somtimes complicated this repro bla bla ;-)
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
If this needed to tell the repro that the app is on your server? I think i am my own vendor of my own apps. somtimes complicated this repro bla bla ;-)
The vendor must match the repo information ... see http://www.haiku-os.org/node/9579 for details. Yes, I would like to allow more vendors, but that is not how the haiku devs designed the software.
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
I have no problems to add software with source. Many of my yab apps are released with source, so this will a of interest for me (not for all my apps).
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
I have no problems to add software with source. Many of my yab apps are released with source, so this will a of interest for me (not for all my apps).
How to add? Can you explain this to me?
It is not with source code that they demand, it is as source code. In other words, they require the .hpkg to not include an executable binary if you use yab as your programming language.
Oh, and .hpkg files for the main repo show "Haiku Project" as the vendor.
I think the "vendor" word in the package information was badly chosen. This was done early in the package system development and the package building and dept creation flow was not very well defined at the time. In the current model, it means something like "distributor" or "reseller". There is a separate "copyright" field telling who actually writes the software and owns the rights to it. It would be difficult to change the keyword now, as old package would stop working. But we could maybe add alternate wordings or make it optional. If this is important to you, please open a bug report at http://dev.haiku-os.org.
On the distribution of Yab apps, the issue is a bit more complex. The problem with "compiled" apps is that they each have a copy of the complete yab runtime. This results in a binary that is one or two megabytes big (or possibly more, I don't remember) even for the simplest applications. This runtime is always the same, so this is a waste of space. This is the concern that was raised and led to rejection of your recipe in the current state, if I remember correctly.
This is independant of the availability of the source: there are some closed source applications and libraries packaged with haikuporter and distributed through the haikuports repository, and there will be more of these (I have some in development myself).
In the case of Yab, what could be done, for example, is making the build-factory generated executables smaller. We could move the yab runtime to a shared library (libyab.so or something similar), and have the executable be a much smaller one, just calling the runtime in that library. This way we would have a small executable and no source distributed, solving the waste of space issue and protecting the sourcecode.
Unfortunately, I don't have much free time for Haiku development at the moment. Please remember me about this in a few days if we meet on IRC and I'll see if I can do it and solve that particular problem.
http://fatelk.com/repo is for any app that doesn't fit the requirements of the haikuports "club". I have not built the back-end up enough to let you upload an .hpkg file yet, but if you email it to me, I will add it to the repo.
I have added an ftp user to allow one to upload the file via ftp. This is not automated so the file still has to be manually added to the repo.
We could move the yab runtime to a shared library (libyab.so or something similar), and have the executable be a much smaller one, just calling the runtime in that library. This way we would have a small executable and no source distributed, solving the waste of space issue and protecting the sourcecode.
Comments
Re: Haiku needs a software center
It's already available in nightly images and is called Haiku Depot. Here is web version: https://depot.haiku-os.org
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Funny thing happened. I discovered it right after I asked :)
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I am involved in redesigning the web version to be more end user/consumer friendly.
I would be keen to hear feedback about depot.haiku-os.org as I am going to report back to the main developer on what we are currently missing compared to other web appstores.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I just checked out the site. It's pretty good!
Re: Haiku needs a software center
It may be easy to download from HaikuDepot. But so far I have not be able to figure out how to add my files (usually in .ZIP format) to it.
I am not saying it can't be done, I am saying I have spent about a hour reading the documentation links and still have not figured out what I need to do.
Compared to BeBits and HaikuWare that is terrible, as it took me less than 10 minutes each when they came out to figure how to upload a file. Is there an easy guide to HaikuDepot anywhere or do I have to keep on reading the present docs?
Re: Haiku needs a software center
There is no automatic way at the moment as you need a HKPG and the automatic Haiku Package Build System still needs heavy development for this, yet the development of it is stalled and none of the core developers are intrested in working on it. It is probably the biggest thing that is holding back beta1.
You can try asking Lelldorin where he is publishing his HPKG Creator app.
There are two guides for the app:
GUI: http://besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/sys/hpkg-creator_eng.html
CLI: http://besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/sys/hpkg_terminal_eng.html
Otherwise you can use HaikuPorter to create a HPKG file, although that is not as easy as using the HPKG Creator app.
Once you have got the HPKG file, you need to track down a Haiku developer, so they can manually add it or you could contact Humdinger and get him to add it.
The main developer of the HaikuDepot website can be contacted on this mailing list:
http://www.freelists.org/list/haiku-depot-web
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Hi!
Haiku Depot Server (HDS) only interfaces with repositories that are hosting HPKG packages. Currently, it only does that for the HaikuPorts repo, which is also currently AFAIK the only repo the HaikuDepot app polls for package information. HDS provides metadata like screenshots, icons, translations, categories, user comments and rating.
The plan is to develop the HDS site to become more like the usual software site, nicely designed, where people can also download packages directly.
You won't be able to upload ZIPs in any case. You can offer your HPKGs to repos like Guest One's or maybe bbjimmy's repo or create your own, see bbjimmy's article. To the HaikuPorts repo, only Haiku committers are able to upload, as that hosts all things needed to build Haiku. Obviously, the Haiku project should create its own, private repo for those packages, but nobody did so far...
Regards,
Humdinger
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I am slowly working my repo to be able to add .hpkg files from other people. The HDS server needs to start working with third party repos for this to be meaningful.
see http://fatelk.com/repo/packages for the first baby steps. now to add screenshots, feed-back comments, ratings, and search/categories to the repo. slowly, but surely.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Okay, now I am feeling stupid. I followed the links to find the only copy of Creator was on HaikuWare as far as I can tell. I tried checking the HaikuDepot website but it does not show up there either.
Is there anywhere else I can download it from?
Am I just using BeSly wrong?
Please note: I have been using BeOS and Haiku-OS for years, if it is so much trouble for me, guess what new users feel like.
I also tried the author's website, and while he has a number of prgrams there, no Creator.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I have a copy. Unfortunately, it does not run, missing symbol. meaning that it needs to be re-compiled on a later version of haiku. The author does not have a website, so HPKGCreator seems to be missing for the time being. This seems to be your best bet at the moment:
http://besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/sys/hpkg-creator_eng.html
Re: Haiku needs a software center
That links is great at telling me how to run the creator, but I don't see a link to download it.
Can anyone help?
Re: Haiku needs a software center
oops wrong link ... BeSly shows the wrong url when this one is loaded.
http://besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/sys/hpkg_terminal_eng.html
This shows how to create an .hpkg from the Terminal, again HPKGCreator is not to be found, and if you did, it wouldn't work ATM.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Hello guys,
the download file from the HPKG creator are changed to our downoad site of BeSly, but bbjimmy
message is correct, this version does not run on current nightlys. If i get yab against runing on a current nightly (i does not get it today) i will make a rebuild.
Lelldorin
http://www.besly.de
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I have a copy. Unfortunately, it does not run, missing symbol. meaning that it needs to be re-compiled on a later version of haiku. The author does not have a website, so HPKGCreator seems to be missing for the time being. This seems to be your best bet at the moment:
http://besly.de/index.html?/menu/search/archiv/sys/hpkg-creator_eng.html
This is not correct: http://www.lelldorin.de, but i does not have files to download from there, because i stored all on haikuware. So haikuware is gone, there is of the most apps no download available any more. If you have luck check out the download page of http://www.besly.de
Lelldorin
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Hello Lelldorin,
I downloaded the HPKGCreator Hpkg from the Downloads page found at besly.de
It doesnt`work!
This comment can be deleted, since there was a simmilar post from Lelldorin before!
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Yes very good idea!
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I don't see it on the BeSly site, even if it does not work on the newest Haiku, I can re-install Alpha 3 to a partition if you can supply the old version.
Also is the source code also available, if yes I might learn YABasic just to get it running.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Thank you everyone. I have the answer I needed, which is Haiku Depot. Thanks for your help!
Re: Haiku needs a software center
I don't see it on the BeSly site, even if it does not work on the newest Haiku, I can re-install Alpha 3 to a partition if you can supply the old version.
Also is the source code also available, if yes I might learn YABasic just to get it running.
The current version is build on Haiku nightly with package management, now a version past alpha 4.1. It does not run on alpha 3 or 4.1, because there is no package management included.
And yes i have the source, but not inclueded at the moment. I think the app need some changes because there are many thinks changed on the package management system sience i release this version.
And you need to learn "yab" not "yabasic" to write on this app.
I never get many feedback, so i think that people does ot use this app.
If i get the BuildFactory running on my current Haiku nightly i will create a new build and place them on BeSly in the Downloads section
Greetings Lelldorin
Re: Haiku needs a software center
If i get the BuildFactory running on my current Haiku nightly i will create a new build and place them on BeSly in the Downloads section
Greetings Lelldorin
the following link is a script that downloads and compiles yab and yab-ide/BuildFactory:
http://yab.orgfree.com/GetLatest-yab.zip
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Thanx bbjimmy i get it running
I have added a current build version on: http://beusergroup.de/index.php/software
Re: Haiku needs a software center
New version of HPKGCreator V0.7-2 pm : http://besly.de/menu/search/archiv/download/download2.php
Try the new build with some new features like dropzones and more options for the HPKG file.
*2015.05.23: New build, because the version 0.7-1 made some problems
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Thanks for the links, I have downloaded the creator and will try to make some packages this weekend.
Now, where is the best place to ask to host the packages for me as I don't have my own repository?
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Now, where is the best place to ask to host the packages for me as I don't have my own repository?
For Yab apps, you can contact bbjimmy and for C++ apps you can contact humdinger.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
As haikuporter recipes are not very easy to write (unfortunately, there is no way around this to get things done right and avoid people trying to take shortcuts), some people prefer to avoid going through the process. In that case, you can try to get your package added to other repositories: Guest One's, bbjimmy's, or if your software is plain old zip, my little "beosarchive" page. For the latter, just contact me and we'll see what can be done. For the two others I dont know what their policies are.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
This is not true. It was made clear to me when I tried to get my Bookmarker app included in haikuports that the only way yab apps were welcome is if they were destributed in source code and not built into a binary. That is why it is not in haikuports and will not be in the main haiku repository.
If this policy has changed, please let me know. I would gladly have my apps in haikuports, I just don't want the user to see my code unless he is interested enough to visit my github repo. Destributing in source code is like letting your underwear show, it just isn't done in polite company.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Now, where is the best place to ask to host the packages for me as I don't have my own repository?
For Yab apps, you can contact bbjimmy and for C++ apps you can contact humdinger.
http://fatelk.com/repo is for any app that doesn't fit the requirements of the haikuports "club". I have not built the back-end up enough to let you upload an .hpkg file yet, but if you email it to me, I will add it to the repo.
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
If this needed to tell the repro that the app is on your server? I think i am my own vendor of my own apps. somtimes complicated this repro bla bla ;-)
Re: Haiku needs a software center
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
If this needed to tell the repro that the app is on your server? I think i am my own vendor of my own apps. somtimes complicated this repro bla bla ;-)
The vendor must match the repo information ... see http://www.haiku-os.org/node/9579 for details. Yes, I would like to allow more vendors, but that is not how the haiku devs designed the software.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
I have no problems to add software with source. Many of my yab apps are released with source, so this will a of interest for me (not for all my apps).
How to add? Can you explain this to me?
Re: Haiku needs a software center
Yab apps are welcome in the main repository of Haiku, and you can contact any of the developers to get it uploaded there. However, we will probably request that you have a recipe for building your package with haikuporter. This ensures updates are easy and painless for everyone.
I have no problems to add software with source. Many of my yab apps are released with source, so this will a of interest for me (not for all my apps).
How to add? Can you explain this to me?
It is not with source code that they demand, it is as source code. In other words, they require the .hpkg to not include an executable binary if you use yab as your programming language.
Oh, and .hpkg files for the main repo show "Haiku Project" as the vendor.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
On the distribution of Yab apps, the issue is a bit more complex. The problem with "compiled" apps is that they each have a copy of the complete yab runtime. This results in a binary that is one or two megabytes big (or possibly more, I don't remember) even for the simplest applications. This runtime is always the same, so this is a waste of space. This is the concern that was raised and led to rejection of your recipe in the current state, if I remember correctly.
This is independant of the availability of the source: there are some closed source applications and libraries packaged with haikuporter and distributed through the haikuports repository, and there will be more of these (I have some in development myself).
In the case of Yab, what could be done, for example, is making the build-factory generated executables smaller. We could move the yab runtime to a shared library (libyab.so or something similar), and have the executable be a much smaller one, just calling the runtime in that library. This way we would have a small executable and no source distributed, solving the waste of space issue and protecting the sourcecode.
Unfortunately, I don't have much free time for Haiku development at the moment. Please remember me about this in a few days if we meet on IRC and I'll see if I can do it and solve that particular problem.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
http://fatelk.com/repo is for any app that doesn't fit the requirements of the haikuports "club". I have not built the back-end up enough to let you upload an .hpkg file yet, but if you email it to me, I will add it to the repo.
I have added an ftp user to allow one to upload the file via ftp. This is not automated so the file still has to be manually added to the repo.
BeatWare Get-it is useful for ftp connections: http://68.118.40.186/fatelk/repo/packages/getit-2.4-1-x86_gcc2.hpkg
ftp host name: 68.118.40.186
ftp user name: ftp
ftp password: ftpuser
This user can upload and download files, but cannot change/create directories or change/delete files.
please only upload .hpkg files or text files about your .hpkg files
The cavet:
The .PackageInfo file must refer to Fat Elk Software as the vendor and have an "urls {" entry or my code cannot add it to the repo.
Re: Haiku needs a software center
The name https://depot.haiku-os.org is not very self-explanatory.
For the sake of clarity, how about renaming it https://software.haiku-os.org ?
Re: Haiku needs a software center
We could move the yab runtime to a shared library (libyab.so or something similar), and have the executable be a much smaller one, just calling the runtime in that library. This way we would have a small executable and no source distributed, solving the waste of space issue and protecting the sourcecode.
+1
Please do it
Re: Haiku needs a software center
yab 1.7.5 is linked to libyab.so ... see http://yab.orgfree.com/