Haiku on Pegasos hardware

Forum thread started by rockman on Fri, 2005-01-28 19:11

For the ones who never heard of it, Pegasos is a PowerPC (G3 - G4) board that has nothing to do with Apple and runs, among many Linux distros, its own os, named MorphOS: in many ways a remake of the AmigaOS (new kernel, same igh-level components).
I recently bacame a happy Pegasos user, but since MorphOS future is becoming VERY unsure, I focused on Linux and soon missed my BeOS (always used it since 4.5's early days) that was my os of choice on my old x86 machine...
What i want to say is that I think it would be very easy to make a Pegasos port of Haiku and what's more, I'm sure BeOS 4.5 or 5 (Zeta?) could run on it with a bit of hacking, thanks to the incredible flexibility of OpenFirmware (the machine's bios).
Has someone tried anything with Haiku/BeOS on the Pegasos?

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Comments

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-01-29 00:16

The Pegasos also has a very untrustworthy company behind it, and the firmware-from-hell, the two reasons OpenBSD/pegasos was never completed.

The reason MorphOS has an uncertain future is that the Pegasos's makers are refusing the pay the developers....

Re: Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-01-29 04:25
rockman wrote:
For the ones who never heard of it, Pegasos is a PowerPC (G3 - G4) board that has nothing to do with Apple and runs, among many Linux distros, its own os, named MorphOS: in many ways a remake of the AmigaOS (new kernel, same igh-level components).
I recently bacame a happy Pegasos user, but since MorphOS future is becoming VERY unsure, I focused on Linux and soon missed my BeOS (always used it since 4.5's early days) that was my os of choice on my old x86 machine...
What i want to say is that I think it would be very easy to make a Pegasos port of Haiku and what's more, I'm sure BeOS 4.5 or 5 (Zeta?) could run on it with a bit of hacking, thanks to the incredible flexibility of OpenFirmware (the machine's bios).
Has someone tried anything with Haiku/BeOS on the Pegasos?

I believe Genesi actually gave Axel a Pegasos to work with and possibly port to Haiku's kernel to... I don't think he's actively working on this any more... at least, it's not one of his priorities as far as I can tell (through his posts on the mailing lists and commit histories)

However, as MYOB has pointed out, there are some strange issues revolving around the Pegasos and the MorphOS crew which suggest that MorphOS isn't the only thing with an unsure future.

In any case, PPC support for Haiku will probably come second to x86 simply due to market-share and hardware cost comparisons... unless someone wants to fund the PPC kernel and driver development directly.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-01-29 05:56

I can also confirm Axel has another PPC box, an Apple, and looking at some of his recent changes - GCC3 compatibility and a few PPC fixes - he's obviously doing some work on it again

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-01-29 06:55
MYOB wrote:
I can also confirm Axel has another PPC box, an Apple, and looking at some of his recent changes - GCC3 compatibility and a few PPC fixes - he's obviously doing some work on it again

interesting...maybe the Mac Mini does have an interesting future ;)

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by rockman - 2005-02-02 13:38

The MorphOS question did not come to a solution yet and its future is only uncertain, not doomed...

However, this has nothing to do with Haiku, which is an open-source OS.

Considering that Gentoo Linux (recently become a Genesi's partner) is now earning 100$ for every Pegasos based OpenDesktop Workstation sold, I wouldn't consider the Pegasos platform so lightly!

Genesi is searching for good partners and OSs... And remember the similarities between the Pegasos and the old BeBox, also stated on BeGroovy...
It wouldn't be a wrong path to take... Only a bit long-term, due to Haiku's development.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-02 16:28
rockman wrote:
Genesi is searching for good partners and OSs... And remember the similarities between the Pegasos and the old BeBox, also stated on BeGroovy...
It wouldn't be a wrong path to take... Only a bit long-term, due to Haiku's development.

The BeBox had decent firmware. the Pegasos doesn't.

The BeBox had an honest, integral company behind it. From the mails/irc/etc posted on MorphOS's site, the Pegasos doesn't

The BeBox was relatively affordable. The Pegasos is laughably overpriced.

Focus on Macintosh PPC hardware, really. People actually HAVE that.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by SigmaNunki - 2005-02-02 17:09
MYOB wrote:
Focus on Macintosh PPC hardware, really. People actually HAVE that.

I for one want this.

I currently have 2 x86 machines and my wife has a G4 PowerBook. Also, I plan my next computer purchase to be a Mac mini.

Please, take care of things on the PPC side before considering moving onto anything else. Especially since, as MYOB puts it, people actually have PPC's.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by decaf - 2005-02-02 20:39

Well I have an Atari ST :twisted:

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-02-02 21:03
SigmaNunki wrote:
Please, take care of things on the PPC side before considering moving onto anything else. Especially since, as MYOB puts it, people actually have PPC's.

Not sure if you missed this, but the Pegasos is PPC-based...

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by SigmaNunki - 2005-02-02 21:31
umccullough wrote:
Not sure if you missed this, but the Pegasos is PPC-based...

Based is not equivalent to equals.

Clearly there are enough significant differences to make porting trouble, see OBSD example above.

What I'm saying is that I would like Haiku to run on PPC's before kinda PPC's.

And since the market share is more for PPC than the PPC alike's, it'd make more sense to make it run on "standard" apple PPC's than the near PPC's.

At least that's my 2 cents.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-02-03 02:22
SigmaNunki wrote:
umccullough wrote:
Not sure if you missed this, but the Pegasos is PPC-based...

Based is not equivalent to equals.

Clearly there are enough significant differences to make porting trouble, see OBSD example above.

What I'm saying is that I would like Haiku to run on PPC's before kinda PPC's.

And since the market share is more for PPC than the PPC alike's, it'd make more sense to make it run on "standard" apple PPC's than the near PPC's.

At least that's my 2 cents.

Sorry to be anal, but let's be totally clear here - PPC = PowerPC - which is simply the processor architecture. It is what executes the native code that is compiled from the source.

I make this distinction because in theory, the only real difference between a PPC-based Mac and a PPC-based Pegasos is the BIOS/Firmware, and the complimentary hardware it's running on (video card, I/O controller, etc.) Pretty much any kernel work done for PPC generically would apply to both Apple PPC machines as well as Genesi PPC machines.

The major differences will probably be in bootloader and drivers...

If anything, Apple's architecture is not "open" per-se... and therefore harder to develop for... and I'm pretty sure Apple would rather nobody else built an OS for their hardware, so I doubt they're helpful in any way.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-03 08:22
umccullough wrote:
SigmaNunki wrote:
umccullough wrote:
Not sure if you missed this, but the Pegasos is PPC-based...

Based is not equivalent to equals.

Clearly there are enough significant differences to make porting trouble, see OBSD example above.

What I'm saying is that I would like Haiku to run on PPC's before kinda PPC's.

And since the market share is more for PPC than the PPC alike's, it'd make more sense to make it run on "standard" apple PPC's than the near PPC's.

At least that's my 2 cents.

If anything, Apple's architecture is not "open" per-se... and therefore harder to develop for... and I'm pretty sure Apple would rather nobody else built an OS for their hardware, so I doubt they're helpful in any way.

In THEORY the Pegaos uses the same firmware as Apple (its an IEEE standard) and a Via IO controller thats the same as on many x86 machines. But its all put together so badly that extreme voodoo is required to get anything to boot on it. Firmware is buggy, hardware access is unreliable, etc, etc

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-03 16:33

Taken from the Linux 2.6.11-rc3 changelog:

Quote:
The Pegasos machines have the VIA IDE controller configured in a strange
way by the firmware. It claims to be fully native, but is actually routed
to legacy irqs 14 and 15.

This patch works around that in the driver.

So even Linux has problems getting the Pegasos to work. Its firmware is BAD.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-02-03 20:35
MYOB wrote:
In THEORY the Pegaos uses the same firmware as Apple (its an IEEE standard) and a Via IO controller thats the same as on many x86 machines. But its all put together so badly that extreme voodoo is required to get anything to boot on it. Firmware is buggy, hardware access is unreliable, etc, etc

Heh, I never actually said the Pegasos would be easier to develop on...

Mainly just that "PPC" is not specific to Apple, nor is it wholly-owned by apple ;) and that Apple hardware should not be referred to as simply "PPC" with others referred to as "semi-PPC".

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-03 21:36

You could be anal and claim that PPC applies to the A/I/M architechture, in which case boards like the Pegasos are partially A/I/M, using the CPU and the boot firmware, but Apples are fully A/I/M by using everything

But thats only possible because A/I/M flopped and never got past developing the PowerPC CPU and settling on using OF.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by umccullough - 2005-02-03 22:41
MYOB wrote:
You could be anal and claim that PPC applies to the A/I/M architechture, in which case boards like the Pegasos are partially A/I/M, using the CPU and the boot firmware, but Apples are fully A/I/M by using everything

But thats only possible because A/I/M flopped and never got past developing the PowerPC CPU and settling on using OF.

Ok, that's a good point - beyond the CPU and Firmware, I haven't read what else is included in the 'A/I/M architecture', so I guess I can't speak to that...

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by DJBase - 2005-02-18 11:15
MYOB wrote:
In THEORY the Pegaos uses the same firmware as Apple (its an IEEE standard) and a Via IO controller thats the same as on many x86 machines. But its all put together so badly that extreme voodoo is required to get anything to boot on it. Firmware is buggy, hardware access is unreliable, etc, etc

Hm, I run MorphOS, Debian, YDL, Mandrake and Gentoo on my Pegasos and never had problems with booting.

Are you having a Pegasos or you are just guessing?

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-18 15:31
DJBase wrote:
MYOB wrote:
In THEORY the Pegaos uses the same firmware as Apple (its an IEEE standard) and a Via IO controller thats the same as on many x86 machines. But its all put together so badly that extreme voodoo is required to get anything to boot on it. Firmware is buggy, hardware access is unreliable, etc, etc

Hm, I run MorphOS, Debian, YDL, Mandrake and Gentoo on my Pegasos and never had problems with booting.

Are you having a Pegasos or you are just guessing?

Neither. I've talked extensively to people who've attempted to get operating systems running on the Pegasos. I'm not buying one until I see proof that Genesi aren't either corrupt or bankrupt - e.g they pay for MorphOS.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by DJBase - 2005-02-18 22:00
MYOB wrote:
Neither. I've talked extensively to people who've attempted to get operating systems running on the Pegasos. I'm not buying one until I see proof that Genesi aren't either corrupt or bankrupt - e.g they pay for MorphOS.

You mean people like normal user or people who wanted to port systems to pegasos?

I dont know if read the statement about Genesi and MorphOS? They decided to focus on linux market because they can make money there what is impossible with MorphOS for now.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by myob - 2005-02-18 23:24
DJBase wrote:
MYOB wrote:
Neither. I've talked extensively to people who've attempted to get operating systems running on the Pegasos. I'm not buying one until I see proof that Genesi aren't either corrupt or bankrupt - e.g they pay for MorphOS.

You mean people like normal user or people who wanted to port systems to pegasos?

I dont know if read the statement about Genesi and MorphOS? They decided to focus on linux market because they can make money there what is impossible with MorphOS for now.

People, highly skilled coders, who port systems to the Pegasos.

www.morphos.net - they're screwing over the MorphOS coders. Totally ignoring that just shows genesi fanboi-ism.

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by DJBase - 2005-02-19 10:04
MYOB wrote:
People, highly skilled coders, who port systems to the Pegasos.

Well, I am just a user and all systems I tested working fine. So I dont know the problem while porting these systems.

MYOB wrote:
www.morphos.net - they're screwing over the MorphOS coders. Totally ignoring that just shows genesi fanboi-ism.

Well, I never trusted this page because its done by 1 person and there are people who have nothing to do with morphos. To many questions are open.
You should read also http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php

Haiku on Pegasos hardware

by SigmaNunki - 2005-02-19 18:01
DJBase wrote:
Well, I never trusted this page because its done by 1 person and there are people who have nothing to do with morphos. To many questions are open.
You should read also http://www.genesi.lu/morphos_statement.php

Yah, well, I've never been a big truster of corps given that they have only profit in mind.

Given that OpenBSD has nothing to gain/lose by saying such things:
http://www.openbsd.org/pegasos.html
"
Known Problems
* The parties involved with the building and sale of the Pegasos boards appear to not be financially sound enough or trustworthy enough to merit further development.
"

The code was removed from the source tree. That kind of says something.