It's currently broken, but the ordinary keys on your laptop has worked in earlier versions, but it got broken in our latest ACPI upgrade. It's on the top of my todo-list. I havn't seen a bug-report on it though, so only way I knew was by word of mouth. So it's always good to report bugs.
Until it is fixed in software, a possible workaround: my Samsung laptop dims the screen a lot when I run it on battery rather than plugged into the mains. IIRC correctly this was a BIOS setting somewhere in the power saving section.
Until it is fixed in software, a possible workaround: my Samsung laptop dims the screen a lot when I run it on battery rather than plugged into the mains. IIRC correctly this was a BIOS setting somewhere in the power saving section.
Sorry for two threads at the top, but has this been fixed yet?
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
nitt, please keep in mind that Haiku is still in the alpha stage of development. With such a small group of developers volunteering what little free time they do have, they have to prioritize developing certain features over others first. When Haiku R1 is ready to be released, this feature is pretty much essential to have, but for now it'll have to take the back seat to more vital features.
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
They are working on Haiku in their free time, you're not paying the developers in any way and can't demand anything.
That's just a cop-out.
I think I have the right to speak intelligence, don't I?
If you want to make a successful product, you have to implement what makes it usable.
This is simply how things work, and I have the right to say it.
Do you say this to anyone who suggests things who asks for a bug to be repaired?
"You don't have the right to demand anything from us"?
That's just a lazy cop-out.
That's the entire purpose of user feedback.
Don't be so contentious about things.
Besides, I have already planned to order their Release 1 CD.
That's not much of a donation, but I don't have much money. :I
User feedback is great, don't get me wrong, but there's a difference between constructive user feedback and getting narky when someone doesn't do what you want. I understand this thread is ancient, and you've been waiting ages for this particular feature, but instead of moaning, why don't you look at how to code C++ an implement it yourself? As tqh said, there's many more important issues to solve than adjusting brightness (which is implemented differently on almost every model of laptop), including just getting Haiku to run on his laptop. You have to realise that the development team behind Haiku is small, and just trying to support booting on a wider range of hardware platforms is more important than supporting tweaking brightness with hardware buttons.
The developers have very little personal time to spare. And it could take some time looking to work out the cause of your problem.
If you look at the code itself you don't even need write a finished polished version that works all by yourself. If you could spend the time to ID where inside the code the problem is, what parameters/LOCs need changing and why. The time saved will help the main line developers in getting to your problem.
Remember you may easily be able to devote hours if not days to the problem, the developers are hard-pressed to find even a few spare hours to look at the problem. Give them the help needed and it may only take the developers a few hours to fix the problem if you give them the **RIGHT** clues.
Hope you find the cause soon, and get the help you need.
Hope you find the cause soon, and get the help you need.
This is a very strange comment. The problem that the poster has reported is that Haiku entirely lacks any support for this stuff. The "cause" is very simple in that sense, nobody ever implemented this. The "right clues" you're talking about consist of this: Haiku doesn't have any support for backlight brightness, to properly use most laptops and some integrated displays (e.g. iMac) it should add such support.
NoHaikuForMe: And this means he can not present a suggestion on what needs to be access how?
I don't know much about what is needed to change screen brightness, and I use the Windows boot/partition to set the brightness on my newer laptop and on my old Dell laptops it could be set thru the BIOS settings. So using Haiku on a dimmed screen has not been a problem to me. Plus I only buy laptops with batteries rated for 8-10 hours for use under Windows. Even without all the power saving features Haiku runs 5-6 hours on such machines.
The big problem seems that there is no universal ways to control screen brightness in laptops.
Point me to something that clearly states how it can be done, and I may even write a user-land program myself. But I am not going to waste days researching how to fix what for me is a minor problem. But find something useful for me to use and I probably will spend the 1-2 days writing something.
There is a few tickets open about not being able to lower the brightness on laptops. It looks like it is a regression, as comments stating that it was working at the start of 2011.
There is a few tickets open about not being able to lower the brightness on laptops. It looks like it is a regression, as comments stating that it was working at the start of 2011.
Most likely this happens on laptops which provide legacy controls for non-ACPI aware operating systems, ie DOS. As Haiku introduced ACPI support it disabled these legacy controls without replacing them with anything.
The legacy controls would typically rely on the fact that there is no sophisticated OS running, when a brightness keypress happens the OS is put to sleep briefly, the firmware controls the entire machine for long enough to adjust the backlight and then the OS is woken again. This is a very invasive solution, but it works for DOS and other archaic systems.
In these cases modern operating systems are expected to identify themselves to ACPI (which Haiku is doing) and then to use ACPI features to read the brightness control keypresses and to control the backlight themselves (which Haiku doesn't do). On the other hand there are also cases where the vendor supplies ACPI data that doesn't work, and they rely on a Windows driver to replace all that with something that does work. In these cases implementing ACPI backlight controls won't help and another driver is needed. Finally there are cases where this is a red herring and all the control is done by the graphics chipset and the work needed is in the graphics driver.
The posts above about how people have identified problems with specific hardware in Linux miss the point though as I attempted to explain previously. In Haiku none of the options work, any laptop where this is "working" is just relying on some goofy firmware magic intended for DOS and not on support from Haiku at all. The problem isn't a bug, it's just yet another hardware feature Haiku doesn't support like bluetooth HID or hot-plug PCI. In 2013 it makes very little sense to try to build hundreds of ad hoc single model workarounds, if anybody is interested in fixing this they ought to begin by adding the concept of backlight brightness controls to the core of Haiku.
In 2013 it makes very little sense to try to build hundreds of ad hoc single model workarounds, if anybody is interested in fixing this they ought to begin by adding the concept of backlight brightness controls to the core of Haiku.
Again why? What is wrong with a user-land program that uses ACPI functions to do this on machine that implement this functions properly. You sound like you think it must be in the kernel or the graphic drivers.
You already pointed out that brightness control is a mess, why bring this into the core of Haiku, leave it as an user-land program that does not mess with the OS.
Again why? What is wrong with a user-land program that uses ACPI functions to do this on machine that implement this functions properly. You sound like you think it must be in the kernel or the graphic drivers.
I don't see any Haiku support for writing userspace programs that poke the relevant bits of ACPI. Regardless, yes that would be the wrong way to approach the problem in principle.
Quote:
You already pointed out that brightness control is a mess, why bring this into the core of Haiku, leave it as an user-land program that does not mess with the OS.
The whole purpose of having an operating system is to handle this stuff. All the hardware is "a mess" by your standard and the purpose of the operating system is to get in there and normalise things. That's what a (real) operating system is for, to enable the user to run their software on their hardware, not spend all their time trying to find out whether their web browser is designed to work with their specific keyboard on computers that have this exact configuration of RAM and model of graphics card.
1) I don't know what the long term developer's goals are concerning functions like this are.
2) But while I see why having the OS core acting like a buffer to functions so a wide range of hardware looks the same to the programs is a good thing. I have a distrust to the idea that whenever you need a feature it must be added into the core of the OS (ie Tracker or the Kernel).
That way leads to a massive central core of code with tons of interactions between it's diffirent parts. At-least while developing screen brightness control, develop it as an external program and once it is debugged then roll it into the next major update.
Still, is the OP going to do some research (not all the work) of their own, or do they want to wait until the developer can find the time to do it all, which could take some time. (years?)
Another simple workaround is to go to Preferences > Appearance and Preferences > Background and modify the colors to something darker, softer, and easier on your eyes. Not everything can be changed this way, but it should be enough to help.
Or plug an external monitor into your laptop and use that monitor's brightness controls, instead.
Good point, I forgot to note that 90% of the time my laptops will be plugged into high resolution monitors even when I travel so many times that is where I control the brightness.
Still, if the OP wants to start doing some of the basic work himself, someone could probably help them in developing a solution.
Comments
Re: Lowering Brightness?
It's currently broken, but the ordinary keys on your laptop has worked in earlier versions, but it got broken in our latest ACPI upgrade. It's on the top of my todo-list. I havn't seen a bug-report on it though, so only way I knew was by word of mouth. So it's always good to report bugs.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Until it is fixed in software, a possible workaround: my Samsung laptop dims the screen a lot when I run it on battery rather than plugged into the mains. IIRC correctly this was a BIOS setting somewhere in the power saving section.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Until it is fixed in software, a possible workaround: my Samsung laptop dims the screen a lot when I run it on battery rather than plugged into the mains. IIRC correctly this was a BIOS setting somewhere in the power saving section.
Sorry for two threads at the top, but has this been fixed yet?
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Unfortunatly not yet.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Lowering Brightness is important for energy saving for those who have laptops , so is important to me. :)
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Lowering Brightness is important for energy saving for those who have laptops , so is important to me. :)
+1
Re: Lowering Brightness?
+1
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Unfortunatly not yet.
How about now?
Is there at least some way I can change it via the terminal?
I don't really care if the shortcut keys work. My Fn key is broken anyways.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Unfortunatly not, while it is easy to implement, I don't have a working Haiku test environment since I switched laptop and nobody else seems interested in working on it.
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
nitt, please keep in mind that Haiku is still in the alpha stage of development. With such a small group of developers volunteering what little free time they do have, they have to prioritize developing certain features over others first. When Haiku R1 is ready to be released, this feature is pretty much essential to have, but for now it'll have to take the back seat to more vital features.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
I don't have much spare time and at the moment I find being able to run Haiku at all on my laptop more important.
Feel free to work on it yourself rather than insulting me: http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=f236b941d009620b6b80eae6f39ce7...
Re: Lowering Brightness?
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
They are working on Haiku in their free time, you're not paying the developers in any way and can't demand anything.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
... what's the point in making an OS if you aren't going to listen to what people want out of it?
They are working on Haiku in their free time, you're not paying the developers in any way and can't demand anything.
That's just a cop-out.
I think I have the right to speak intelligence, don't I?
If you want to make a successful product, you have to implement what makes it usable.
This is simply how things work, and I have the right to say it.
Do you say this to anyone who suggests things who asks for a bug to be repaired?
"You don't have the right to demand anything from us"?
That's just a lazy cop-out.
That's the entire purpose of user feedback.
Don't be so contentious about things.
Besides, I have already planned to order their Release 1 CD.
That's not much of a donation, but I don't have much money. :I
Re: Lowering Brightness?
User feedback is great, don't get me wrong, but there's a difference between constructive user feedback and getting narky when someone doesn't do what you want. I understand this thread is ancient, and you've been waiting ages for this particular feature, but instead of moaning, why don't you look at how to code C++ an implement it yourself? As tqh said, there's many more important issues to solve than adjusting brightness (which is implemented differently on almost every model of laptop), including just getting Haiku to run on his laptop. You have to realise that the development team behind Haiku is small, and just trying to support booting on a wider range of hardware platforms is more important than supporting tweaking brightness with hardware buttons.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
The developers have very little personal time to spare. And it could take some time looking to work out the cause of your problem.
If you look at the code itself you don't even need write a finished polished version that works all by yourself. If you could spend the time to ID where inside the code the problem is, what parameters/LOCs need changing and why. The time saved will help the main line developers in getting to your problem.
Remember you may easily be able to devote hours if not days to the problem, the developers are hard-pressed to find even a few spare hours to look at the problem. Give them the help needed and it may only take the developers a few hours to fix the problem if you give them the **RIGHT** clues.
Hope you find the cause soon, and get the help you need.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Hope you find the cause soon, and get the help you need.
This is a very strange comment. The problem that the poster has reported is that Haiku entirely lacks any support for this stuff. The "cause" is very simple in that sense, nobody ever implemented this. The "right clues" you're talking about consist of this: Haiku doesn't have any support for backlight brightness, to properly use most laptops and some integrated displays (e.g. iMac) it should add such support.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
NoHaikuForMe: And this means he can not present a suggestion on what needs to be access how?
I don't know much about what is needed to change screen brightness, and I use the Windows boot/partition to set the brightness on my newer laptop and on my old Dell laptops it could be set thru the BIOS settings. So using Haiku on a dimmed screen has not been a problem to me. Plus I only buy laptops with batteries rated for 8-10 hours for use under Windows. Even without all the power saving features Haiku runs 5-6 hours on such machines.
The big problem seems that there is no universal ways to control screen brightness in laptops.
Point me to something that clearly states how it can be done, and I may even write a user-land program myself. But I am not going to waste days researching how to fix what for me is a minor problem. But find something useful for me to use and I probably will spend the 1-2 days writing something.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Okay, I did a quick Google search. Most of the first page links were worthless as they assume you wanted to download a Windows program to do the job.
But:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=110641
http://askubuntu.com/questions/24352/how-to-control-display-brightness-o...
Are two interesting threads that suggest solutions are possible for Haiku users.
The search terms I used were: "hardware control screen brightness in laptops"
Hope the OP takes the ball and runs with it.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
There is a few tickets open about not being able to lower the brightness on laptops. It looks like it is a regression, as comments stating that it was working at the start of 2011.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
There is a few tickets open about not being able to lower the brightness on laptops. It looks like it is a regression, as comments stating that it was working at the start of 2011.
Most likely this happens on laptops which provide legacy controls for non-ACPI aware operating systems, ie DOS. As Haiku introduced ACPI support it disabled these legacy controls without replacing them with anything.
The legacy controls would typically rely on the fact that there is no sophisticated OS running, when a brightness keypress happens the OS is put to sleep briefly, the firmware controls the entire machine for long enough to adjust the backlight and then the OS is woken again. This is a very invasive solution, but it works for DOS and other archaic systems.
In these cases modern operating systems are expected to identify themselves to ACPI (which Haiku is doing) and then to use ACPI features to read the brightness control keypresses and to control the backlight themselves (which Haiku doesn't do). On the other hand there are also cases where the vendor supplies ACPI data that doesn't work, and they rely on a Windows driver to replace all that with something that does work. In these cases implementing ACPI backlight controls won't help and another driver is needed. Finally there are cases where this is a red herring and all the control is done by the graphics chipset and the work needed is in the graphics driver.
The posts above about how people have identified problems with specific hardware in Linux miss the point though as I attempted to explain previously. In Haiku none of the options work, any laptop where this is "working" is just relying on some goofy firmware magic intended for DOS and not on support from Haiku at all. The problem isn't a bug, it's just yet another hardware feature Haiku doesn't support like bluetooth HID or hot-plug PCI. In 2013 it makes very little sense to try to build hundreds of ad hoc single model workarounds, if anybody is interested in fixing this they ought to begin by adding the concept of backlight brightness controls to the core of Haiku.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
In 2013 it makes very little sense to try to build hundreds of ad hoc single model workarounds, if anybody is interested in fixing this they ought to begin by adding the concept of backlight brightness controls to the core of Haiku.
Again why? What is wrong with a user-land program that uses ACPI functions to do this on machine that implement this functions properly. You sound like you think it must be in the kernel or the graphic drivers.
You already pointed out that brightness control is a mess, why bring this into the core of Haiku, leave it as an user-land program that does not mess with the OS.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Again why? What is wrong with a user-land program that uses ACPI functions to do this on machine that implement this functions properly. You sound like you think it must be in the kernel or the graphic drivers.
I don't see any Haiku support for writing userspace programs that poke the relevant bits of ACPI. Regardless, yes that would be the wrong way to approach the problem in principle.
You already pointed out that brightness control is a mess, why bring this into the core of Haiku, leave it as an user-land program that does not mess with the OS.
The whole purpose of having an operating system is to handle this stuff. All the hardware is "a mess" by your standard and the purpose of the operating system is to get in there and normalise things. That's what a (real) operating system is for, to enable the user to run their software on their hardware, not spend all their time trying to find out whether their web browser is designed to work with their specific keyboard on computers that have this exact configuration of RAM and model of graphics card.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
NoHaikuForMe:
1) I don't know what the long term developer's goals are concerning functions like this are.
2) But while I see why having the OS core acting like a buffer to functions so a wide range of hardware looks the same to the programs is a good thing. I have a distrust to the idea that whenever you need a feature it must be added into the core of the OS (ie Tracker or the Kernel).
That way leads to a massive central core of code with tons of interactions between it's diffirent parts. At-least while developing screen brightness control, develop it as an external program and once it is debugged then roll it into the next major update.
Still, is the OP going to do some research (not all the work) of their own, or do they want to wait until the developer can find the time to do it all, which could take some time. (years?)
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Another simple workaround is to go to Preferences > Appearance and Preferences > Background and modify the colors to something darker, softer, and easier on your eyes. Not everything can be changed this way, but it should be enough to help.
Or plug an external monitor into your laptop and use that monitor's brightness controls, instead.
Re: Lowering Brightness?
Good point, I forgot to note that 90% of the time my laptops will be plugged into high resolution monitors even when I travel so many times that is where I control the brightness.
Still, if the OP wants to start doing some of the basic work himself, someone could probably help them in developing a solution.