PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Hi guys,
since most designers are probably forum readers I'm posting here.
Please take a look at:
http://www.haiku-os.org/wiki/index.php?title=Website_Team#Layout
(including the requirements section).
Could someone please create a simple, but good-looking CSS-based skin for us? I'm a horrible designer and need help, but I can integrate the skin, so all I need is a set of CSS and HTML files.
Would anyone be interested?
Thank you!
Comments
Details please
What exactly are you 'skinning'?
A CMS? Which one?
Please give us more to go on. The page you mentioned does not have these crucial details.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I tried TYPO3, but it's too horrible pain. I think that in the end MODx, Drupal, or Mambo will have to work. We don't have a decision, yet.
I'd like to have an independent skin "base". Please just create a CSS with a sample HTML page. The rest will be done by myself.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Perhaps we should narrow down the choices for the CMS first. Each system has its own way of laying pages out with different variables. In order to do something with a layout similar to what you suggested, we should have an idea of what is going to be used.
Also, read my post on that page's discussion regarding navigation. Don't get too unconventional with your brainstorming.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Okay, I went through those systems, again, and Drupal seems to be the best suited CMS for what I imagined (optional propagation of new content to front-page, categorization, and related-pages navigation).
So, pleae create a very nice Drupal skin.
ar1000, which post do you mean? Do you have a link? I don't think I'm getting too unconventional. I just read a few articles on website usability and user navigation habits. We need something more flexible than a fixed site-structure, but I will take care of sensible page relations. Don't bother, the most important navigation entries will always stay at the top.
FYI, I tested my local Drupal install with this "Related Links" plugin:
http://drupal.org/node/14267
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I have always suggested Drupal. Two more advantages: you can edit the menu structure to make it more user friendly. Second, drupal is very fast growing and easy to update. The current version is 2x easier to use than a couple of minor releases ago.
I highly recommend AGAINST drupal
I've done work for a large community based on Drupal, and my experience with it, as well as the experience of that of the main engineer working on coding bits a pieces for the system, was that it is terrible to work with. And it is LOADED with security problems.
My experience with full-blown CMS systems is limited, however, so I don't think I could point you to an alternative with any confidence.
I'm sure there are a lot of people on here who could give you some insight into CMS systems. One thing you may want to keep in mind is the ability of non-technical users to add content and do meaningful edits.
What happened to the project recommendations, etc, listed on the wiki page regarding the new website?
Re: I highly recommend AGAINST drupal
It was obviously good enough for Firefox, and we will not have near their userbase. I am sorry you had a bad experience, but I currently administer 3 drupal based sites and they have never caused any problems.
Re: I highly recommend AGAINST drupal
Drupal with WYSIWYG and category-based navigation should be easy enough (at least, you can get used to it). When I first tried Drupal I hated the fact that it's incredibly difficult to add navigation entries to the menu, but with our new navigation scheme the whole story is very different. Here, only Drupal is good enough for us.
Why not Plone? Too expensive hosting. Why not RailFrog? We didn't want to wait, anymore. We need a new website NOW. Probably Drupal is not our last CMS, but for now it has to work.
correction: SPREADfrefox
Drupal is used for SPREADfirefox, not the mozilla site. There is an important difference. Spreadfirfox is a community-site which lends itself to the use of drupal just as it is.
Making drupal look like a product site is not going to be easy.
Who is in charge of the web team, anyhow? Shouldn't they make the final say? I'm curious as to what he/she thinks.
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
Youââ¬â¢ve been debating with one of them :P
Seriously though, a lot of decisions are made by the core Haiku developers because theyââ¬â¢ve been doing this project for years. If youââ¬â¢d like to join in more, volunteer to assist with the new site :) CMS systems were debated on the haiku-web mailing list about a month back, where wkornew detailed the pro/cons, and everyone added their view. This current choice seems more than reasonable.
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
Actually, there is nobody really involved. Kurtis is the far-too-busy team leader. Michael and I took over this task because our current website (including Bugzilla) is too limiting and complicated for us. FYI, I'm not a real web developer and I'm not doing this on my own (i.e.: I discuss everything with the other admins). This is just a task that has to be done now and our main developers have enough work with coding.
I know that Drupal is not the best CMS, but the alternatives are a pain to work with. We tried a lot of CMSes (*much* more than the short list at opensourcecms.com) and they are all horrible and overloaded.
The debate John mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. The CMS discussion started internally a very long time ago. We debated this to death and the whole team is sick of this topic.
We want to give Drupal a real chance. Please help us create a really nice and professional theme.
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
A realistic and practical decision at last!! Drupal was suggested/recommended -- together with another CMS -- about 2 months ago, but the the response then was that "it does not work".
Too bad it took this long to realize what was pretty obvious from the very beginning.
Having said that, I am actually glad that you have decided on a CMS that, although it may not be perfect, it does have a proven record.
Koki
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
Yeah, its mostly a group thing right now, Kurtis is otherwise occupied with his more real-world job.
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
I'm sorry about this, but at that time we wanted to have a simple page tree for organizing our content. Drupal is not really intended for this scheme (the official site even links to an article that basically makes this conclusion). Recently, I decided to try something different and here Drupal is well-suited. We will not have to bother about a navigation tree. We'll categorize our stuff and Drupal takes care of inter-linking related content.
I disagree that Drupal is an obvious choice for everyone. It has a different philosophy and IMHO you should not try to use Drupal like an ordinary (tree-based) CMS.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
related pages and topics can be just as simple though, it just depends on your "mental framework"
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
I am not saying that using Drupal was the obvious choice, but that what you are now saying in the announcement on the front page was obvious from the very beginning, and I quote:
"Plone hosting is too expensive because Plone is very resource-hungry and requires a powerful server with root access. RailFrog is progressing too slowly for us and we do not want to wait for the perfect CMS, anymore"
This was known and pointed out in the haiku-web mailing list long ago. I hate to say this, but if somebody would have listened... :-(
Having said that, I am glad this is moving forward. I have heard good things about Drupal, so go for it! :-)
Koki
PS: In the announcement on the front page, you may want to add where to make the submissions for the theme (ie., email address).
Re: correction: SPREADfrefox
At the time I tried Drupal I was searching for something different. I must admit that I did not really know the idea behind it.
There is a link to the mailing list's info page, so you can register. You wouldn't be able to post without a subscription, anyway.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
So now there is a contest . . .
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
So, who would like to work on a theme? This doesn't really have to end in a contest; we can work together. All I want is to have a nice theme. The new website is at:
http://plonetest.haiku-os.org/
It's still work in progress, of course. I'm trying out different tagging concepts. I think I've found one that doesn't require too much fiddling, but this needs more real-world testing. I've imported all important newsletter articles and Axel's important blog posts, but maybe someone wants to add more.
Then, we also need more content for the "Collaborate" section and we need better designs for the "Development" and "Collaborate" pages (some cool images would be nice).
Would anyone like to help? :)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I could go through the developers disparate blogs, and include them, with permission of course. Rudolfs would be a shame to lose!
Glass Elevator pages were put onto the wiki by myself anyhow, guess I should move them again :)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Cool! Not all users are registered, though. For example, Rudolf doesn't have an account. I can create one and when/if he wants to come back I'll reassign it to him.
I'm not sure whether I should change the category stuff one last time and have a separate "Type" category with:
* Articles
* Developer Tutorials
* Imlementation Details
* RFCs
* User Tutorials
That means I'll have to re-tag everything, but I think it's easier to use than the current scheme because it doesn't require extra explanation and the "Topic" category would have less entries. I'll just add that category and start adding everything...
so...
Are we using plone? Or drupal?
What is the verdict on this?
Re: so...
It appears that plonetest.haiku-os.org is currently running Drupal...so I'm guessing that's what it will be.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
My slow progress. There are a lot of things that need to be done to make this particular theme better. I am thinking about starting from scratch. This is my fourth concept. Still not feeling it!
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Thank you for working on it!
I think it *looks* good, but as far as I can see it's a fixed-width theme (not good for widescreens) and the navigation buttons should not be placed above the logo. There is no connection between buttons and content if you put the navbar and site content so far apart.
Could you please contact DarkWyrm and Jorge (Koki)? They are working on something, too. Maybe you could combine your efforts? I don't know if that works out well, but three people are better than one. :)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
its not fixed width. It has a fixed and varied mode. I am working on moving the navbar to an alternate location anyway.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
FYI, DarkWyrm wanted to modify this theme:
http://cvs.drupal.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/drupal/contributions/themes/pla...
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Hi ar1000,
I'm looking at that design, and i'm thinking wow. That's great! That's what the type of design i was hoping for (Appealing, Usable, but also modern & contemporary).
I have to ask though, is that just a picture or a screenshot of an actual layout? If it's a layout could you please post the source? I would love to see it in action...
That looks...nice, too :).
I see good fortune in store for the Haiku Site 8).
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Could you also please use lighter borders and shadows? We think there are too many separators in your theme.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I think if your going to use a cms it should be LDU (sedito) http://www.neocrome.net
Its really easy to skin >=0D
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Yeah, it stared worse. I am rebuiding a skin based on a layout. I did something quick to Plain2 too ââ¬â coincidence.
ps. For skoe's question: it is a screenshot of the skin in WebKit prerelease (Safari bleeding edge). I'll release the source when its a little more mature.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Well ââ¬â after a couple of days of inactivity, I started modding another skin today. It is simpler than the previous one but, I can finish it faster!
p.s. : adding things to the upper right like a search box and "contact us" will be easy but I need to go for now. Perhaps later tonight I will do this.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
*Drools*.
I think it's important to Note this one as well:
http://bug-nordic.org/haiku-os.org-01.png
(Posted by Petter Holt Juliussen on the OpenBeOS mailing list).
Finally, this will all form into a "Super" Website that will, eventually, rule the world 8).
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
This is how it looks at this hour of the night (morning)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Smoother!
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Since some people seem to dislike the circles for some reason that I cannot fathom ââ¬âàthis is without most of them.
fonts
There's something about the fonts that irritates me.
They look so standard, the site now looks like any typical "modern" wiki because of it...
In general, this constant use of the same run-of-the-mill sans serif font(s), makes me feel addressed like a retard....probably also because they are often (slightly) oversized, to my idea.
Your examples do not suffer from this last aspect, though.
So, besides shifting with layout and adapting graphics, I think that some attention should go to the usage of fonts....including serif fonts!
Here's an interesting website you may want to consult about this.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Actually, the font faces that I used are not often found on computers (at leas the headline). Personally, I also like smaller font-sizes, but peopleoften need them to be larger for visibility. As for the use of Myraid or Frutiger ââ¬âàthey are very nice sansd-serfi fonts. Very readable. I guess what I am saying is: I disagree.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
This is a melding of the Koki Mockup with my skin. I am lacking input from people right now so it is difficult to keep moving forward. So please write what you think ââ¬â even better, write why you think it an provide suggestions if possible. Please don't write "the fonts suck" or "i hate I candy with the fire of 1000 suns".
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Looking really good.
A few comments/suggestions...
1. How do the top navigation bar and content boxes look with the lines lightened? Might help make it feel a little more open (not that it looks particularly enclosed at the moment, just a thought).
2. I love the tone of blue you've used, looks fantastic.
3. With the Haiku graphic at the top of the page, I don't know about the leaves in the background. They sort of take too much focus away from the logo at the centre. Have you considered maybe using duller colours for them so the logo stands out more? Making them even grayscale perhaps?
4. In terms of layout (I know this isn't so much your department as it is Koki's) I think it would work best with the green introduction box above the other two and spanning the width of the page, with perhaps a screenshot of a fresh Haiku desktop thrown in for good measure. Then the other two boxes with perhaps a third one accompanying them below, perhaps used for logging into the site (username, password)?
5. No search?
All in all though I think you've definitely hit the right balance between professionalism and reflecting the community-based nature of the project. :)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
While I find the content area great, I don't like the top logo banner at lot because the official logo is quite too small and merged with too much colorfull background.
The only time I said myself "wow, very great Haiku logo" was when I've discovered the Technoid #8 ezine report about Haiku, page 7:
Official logo, shadows and reflections, oh my!
It's looking very professionnal, giving an elaborate "apple.com graphics" look. Which is not bad... Maybe one could contact Matthias about reusing it?
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
From what I have gathered over the last month or two, that is no longer the official logo :P
The official logo uses gradients on the leaves now apparently.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I won't comment on the header logo too much - but I'm not fond of it personally.
On the other hand, I like the blue navigation bar top AND bottom, and the dotted underlined links are neat :) (do browsers support that as standard?)
The lightly colored background of the sections is interesting though - and not so much that it's distracting - so that's nice :)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
FYI, the official logo is here
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
1. I used the official Logo
2. Is the consensus that I lighten the leaves in the background and reduce the zoom filter?
3. Dotted links are supported in most (if not all browsers) it uses a:link { text-decoration:none; border-bottom: thin dotted #????; }
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I'd be interested in seeing how it looks a little lighter, yes. The zoom isn't a big problem I don't think. Although it could be a little larger, I quite like how it looks centered at that size. The circle behind the logo looks really great.
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
- Updated! MORE COMMENTS please!
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
Looking good. You should probably post to the mailing lists instead of just asking us though, seeing that the project members are the ones that will have the final say and all. ;)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I have been ââ¬â no one is chatty about it lately, so the forums it is for now :-)
PLEASE HELP: We need a skin!
I think the 'News headlines' should be at the place of 'Developer ressources'.
Overall, it's pretty nice, simple and clear 8)