very urgent needed apps list
A thing that will allow Haiku to enter on the world of "used OSes" is availabity of some needed apps, my idea is to create first a list (and if possible, viewable on Haiku Homepage):
Some users leave an entire OS because they did not find their needed apps.
here is my list (complete it with other posts) :
PHP 5
MYSQL 5
JAVA AND JAVAC
APACHE 2.X
A DHCP SERVER (NOT SURE)
OPENOFFICE
GAIM (NOT SURE)
Comments
Re: very urgent needed apps list
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
On its way.
Why? Its not going to be a server OS. Already supports BeOS R5 anyway.
Why? Its not going to be a server OS.
Also on its way.
Why? Nasty GTK+ huge blob of an application vs. the im_kit, which does stuff "the BeOS way". I know which one is more suitable by a long shot.
Re: very urgent needed apps list
Oh, but you forget ONE thing. Many users are using their home computers as all round servers. I have FTP as well as HTTP running. And a CS-server as well.
Oh but you... (the same as above)
Oh but you... (the same as above)
Oh but you... (the same as above)
Well... Gaim? Hmm... it could be ported, and it's not that much of a big blob. Nor is it nasty. I know you don't like the world as it is, but your behaviour is getting radically worse for each every day, old grumpy man.
I don't think there is any reason to port Gaim, but if people want to then fine with me. OpenOffice however... naah... too big too bloated, just like most other office suites. Porting applications like Abiword and Gnumeric would be better. Perhaps utilizing some code from OO.o in order to get better import and export in regard to MS fileformats.
Whether or not it's going to be a server OS is nothing of your business. This is user dependant, and there'll be a lot more home servers running Haiku than you think.
Stop living in the stone age and say hello to the 5 year old millenia ;)
very urgent needed apps list
GAIM is the OO.o of instant messanging, so that analogy is fairly useless. Home server or not, using a desktop OS to serve using UNIX powertools is insane, R5 included a basic FTP and HTTP server.
I'll stop living in 1999 when something good comes out of the past 6 years. There hasn't been much
very urgent needed apps list
and what about that list ??
surely there are some apps that are urgently needed for making a place for haiku on the open source market....
these apps could be optional (not included in the haiku distro)
very urgent needed apps list
I answered the entire list. Theres a lot of server apps. Theres a bloated IM client, when BeOS already has a good IM client. Theres an office suite and a programming language virtual machine that are both being ported already.
very urgent needed apps list
Here's one thing I'd like to see: DVD authoring software.
I have a HD-recording digital sat receiverwith a network interface that records all sorts of stuff. I'd like to be able to demux/cut/mux it all, create menus, master a DVD, shrink it so it fits on a 4.35GB DVD and burn that.
very urgent needed apps list
I have to somewhat agree with MYOB here (which I don't always) - most of that list was just server-software - big deal. Who installs MySQL for every day use? Who installs PHP 5 to run their desktop software?
The GAIM thing is tough - a newer version of GTK+ must be ported first - which may be much easier with Haiku than it was with BeOS due to the better posix support promised... I do think it's a good idea anyhow - as it is a cross-platform IM client that supports multiple protocols. It may be unclean, and bloated - but it's still a good app to support for users who want to make the jump to Haiku and still use the same day-to-day software that they're used to.
This is why I also support OO.o, Firefox, and Thunderbird - I believe these have the potential to become "staples" for the majority of users worldwide no matter what operating system you use.
very urgent needed apps list
Agreed.
I'd also like to see a free non-GIMP image editing application, a more OS-integrated web browser then firefox, a light-weight http/php/mysql server combo for the web designers/website writer coder people thingies, and alot more drivers.
But i agree with MYOB in terms of Gaim, there's no real point.
very urgent needed apps list
Why all this talk of porting all the time? These forums are filled with it. Why the heck should GTK software be ported to BeOS? Instead of porting god damn every app from Linux, why not use Linux which the apps are ment and written for?
Let's rather foucs on writing good quality BeOS apps! I know there are limits when it comes to developers, but I would seriously rather see no IM client than all that Linux crap. And whats that with porting RPM. Please.
very urgent needed apps list
Agreed - except for the chicken-egg syndrome of a new OS...
Haiku will have to support SOME ported software if it wants to steal users from other OSes... there's just too much inertia to overcome otherwise.
The fact that so many people want "their app" ported is an exact example of this. There are many who will not SERIOUSLY look at Haiku until their every-day apps are ported. And they certainly won't try out any of Haiku's elegant/clean apps until they've seriously looked at Haiku. It nearly has to be this way...
On the other hand, as the world begins to use more web-based applications (email is an example of this) - having their favorite app ported won't be a problem - as long as there's a good standards-compliant and capable web browser available to the OS.
Support for cross-platform software is another win for alternative-OSes here - supporting Java and .NET (mono) apps can't hurt...
In the end, it takes time and effort to do anything - re-writing the world's most-used apps for Haiku is one way, porting them is another - developers have their opinions, users have others - it will ultimately depend on who screams the loudest and waves the money around.
Also, don't forget that many of these apps are not just "Linux crap" - but also many have been ported to windows and MacOSX, losing much of their linux-like behavior in the process.
very urgent needed apps list
oueshcousin's points about PHP, SQL and such still have merit if you want to web-develop on Haiku. A local setup is pretty handy (and much faster) for web site development.
Does that help to answer your "why", MYOB?
very urgent needed apps list
I web develop from whatever machine I'm working on at the time, all the stuff is stored on my NetBSD box. Which is far, far more capable of hosting apache/php/mysql than BeOS or Haiku ever will be. And its much faster than if the software was on the BeOS box, because its sitting in a cupboard across the room from me connected by 100Mbps ethernet.
I can't see the point of using a desktop OS to run server iron. People did web development on the Mac for -years- before it was even capable of such a concept. Same with Windows 9x.
very urgent needed apps list
A good console based irc client! Something like Irssi, or maby even a port of Irssi :)
why does everyone want MySQL?
BeOS has been blessed with Postgresql since version 6. Not wanting to troll but until MySQL 5, it was no competition - BeOS had the better database.
Yes, BeOS is a desktop OS, yes people will run simple servers, but don't ask for another database when we've already got a fantastic one.
PHP5 will probably compile if someone takes a couple on months to remove all the bad hacks in it. I spent a lot of time working with David Reid and Peter Moore trying to get another PHP to compile after the joint Webserver Kit we put together.
For web development, the one thing that BeOS (has always) lacked is good quality web development tools (vi, notepad, emacs, and that god awful thing on bebits). Mozilla's site editing tools are the best you've got, so maybe Nvu would be an option?
very urgent needed apps list
Not everybody has such a setup, not even amongst webdevelopers.
So yes. these "server"-OS'es packages have a place in Haiku.
It's not your decision what belongs to Haiku, but the users of Haiku, and you are only one of them. Don't forget the rest.
very urgent needed apps list
I think his point was that they're not "mission critical" as the topic implied ("very urgent needed apps list") and I agree - I don't think I hardly ever run into a need for those server-based apps on a daily basis, so I certainly wouldn't call them "urgently needed"
very urgent needed apps list
I can't run a system without them. Remove one of them and my system crumbles to dust :lol:
But of course these packages aren't "mission critical" to the newbie user. But they are needed none the less for those of us who do more than listening to MP3, Ogg Vorbis or watching videos (and don't go sharing those you may not share - share those videos you may share - like Star Wreck - in the pirkinning).
very urgent needed apps list
Then I would assume you are developer or IT professional - where a "desktop OS" is not what you're specifically looking for (workstation OS is probably more applicable).
What desktop users need PHP, MySQL, and Apache to do their daily tasks?
Why would they need a DHCP server (most wireless/broadband routers already have one built in anyway these days)
I must be missing something - but the majority of standard desktop os users doesn't need most of these server tools... which is all that MYOB was trying to point out.
very urgent needed apps list
as a 08/15 user of desktop OS I`m looking for:
a good office
good media support
good internet client
good support for my hardware
And of course:
good games!
very urgent needed apps list
NO applications suggested yet are crucial.
But a list of Apps needed for Haiku R1 would include WWW/PHP/MySQL. These are needed for people developing Web based applications, eg. PHP. These would also allow people to host their own website on their computer.
Not everyone has a 2nd computer (Or even the know-how) to go and build a server, even a simple one.
very urgent needed apps list
That's a very good point, umccullough.
With that point in mind, what *functions* would be needed for *desktop* users? Let's just smack out a list without worrying what's already available, then go through and fill in the blanks. I say functions rather then apps because that's what they are. :P
Create documents
Send, receive email
Browse the Web
Play music and video
Chat online (IM, IRC. Anything else?)
I'm out. :)
EDIT: Beaten by other posters, too slow.
very urgent needed apps list
if itôs not under create documents:
edit grafics, digi cams are wide spread today.
very urgent needed apps list
Yes, this is basically what I'm getting at... Anything beyond that is for "power users" (i know, this is a very vague term, and has changed a lot over the years) -- but developing websites and hosting them seems more like a workstation/server OS task... which Haiku may well become over time... and certainly is capable of.
I think the point being discussed is whether these are crucial apps for a Desktop OS - not whether users need them.
I guarantee that most of these will eventually exist for Haiku once it starts to get traction and more popular, but first and foremost, it needs to at least meet the initial goal - to become a viable desktop OS right?
very urgent needed apps list
What's the difference between a Desktop OS and a Workstation? I personally think those terms are wrongly used together (ie. they are in different catagories).
I would place 'Terminal-Based OS', and 'Desktop OS' in one catagory.
Then i would place 'Workstation OS', and 'Server OS' in another.
But anyway haiku shouldn't be bundled with more advanced things like a web server but there should be a webserver-port, of course. People use a Desktop OS as their Workstation.
8), You hit the nail on the head.
Exactly. First it needs to "Work". Non-essential stuff can be written/ported later on.
very urgent needed apps list
Before we try to write BeOS-only apps; first lets just concentrate on the OS ^_^ until then we'll have to port some of the applications
very urgent needed apps list
I think the person who said Linux apps runs best on Linux has really made the point very clear.
I have never understood this porting 'til you die thing. It's about diversity, and how much diversity can there be when all systems run the same apps?
Rather follow standards, I'd love for something like GoBe that would be able to read write OASIS format. Do I want OOo? NO, because then I'd be better off using Windows or Linux.
Let Haiku be elegant not like a linux distro with a different kernel beneath. That would just be silly if you ask me.
The whole discussion about convincing users and their favourite apps yadi yadi yadi is what really makes Linux a Non desktop winner today and will make it tomorrow. The way I see it, for 90% of the population,Linux is just like Windows now just more complex and stuff doesn't work. The reason "Free" is not an issue, people simply don't care.
However, being DIFFERENT would make certain people attracted (such as myself). And is it really a goal to have 90% of the computerusers using Haiku? I thought it was all about making the current userbase very happy, and if they are, they'll be good ambassedeurs anyway.
Remember the first time you saw BeOS? Wasn't the magic the difference? And now so many go and say, let's be the same as the others? Insane.
As for Crucial Apps, there are several concepts which people have develop and continue to develop which are very BeOS...
MDR come to mind, and IM-Kit which is simply excellent. The whole idea with translators is wonderful and there is so much more to do.
I had myself a hope of having an Event Daemon at some point which can probably be found somewhere deep down in these forums somewhere =)...
There's so many ideas which are brilliant and should be created rather than taking bad ideas and porting them...
Legitimacy
When oueshcousin posted about having a need for certain specific apps, it was because what he does from day-to-day requires them. AFAICT, it boils down to Apache and some common associated technologies plus instant messaging, DHCP services, and an office suite. IM and an office suite are not debatable - they are definite needs and only the office suite remains unfilled.
BeOS has a niche for a web server (anyone remember PoorMan?), but it is not something that is a requirement for the type of user that Haiku is aimed at. This doesn't mean that it shouldn't be possible to run a web server under Haiku. Apache and the other server stuff he mentioned are things he thinks are urgent because he needs them in day-to-day work and wants to be able to use Haiku to do it. I have a feeling that with the exception of the DHCP server, it will all happen at some time down the road when some developer gets the itch for them and needs to scratch it.
very urgent needed apps list
umccullough, togs_01, skoe use reason...
a server is a super stable worktation that listens to incomming connections and repsponsd. or a workstation is a less stable bloated pc that tries to serve the user with whatever he wants. same crap.
the no 1 stuff is hardware support i think. the more the better. especially new hardware. webcams, and drives, and chipsets like nForce, etc, etc...thre's a lot here.
and no 2 stuff is what the reasoning people said ;D stuff like
- surf the web having the ability to see flash/shockwave and java
- download stuff
- listen to music like mp3 wav mid mpc ogg flac ape (yes I DO listen to ape, mpc and ogg often. and any system that does not play midi is crap and shut be destroyed;D)
- watch movies especially (xvid dvix and that audio codec super famous) mpg avi and optionally realaudio and mov (ies i do watch movs a lot and realaudios but i dont care if they don't work. cause i can find ways around it by not wathching.)
- chat/im with at least yahoo msn aim irc
- see pictures especially jpg bmp gifs png (optionally tga)
- open/edit documents... ms doc, rtf and txt pdf
- de-archive zip rar 7z (is the best) tar gzip
LIST ENDS HERE
and just for me
- and LASTLY to install my favourite pieces of software. i just need photoshop, and 3d studio max and few others. or find ways of running them by emulating ddls or having a nt/linux/dos subsystem. ability to run dos games or whatever haing a dos subsystem, or im happy with dosbox.
i might have forgotten something like emails or other stuff (you can just send emails online. anybody uses gmail anyway.). i can also not use ims and just use meebo.com to chat. but that sucks. i want to share file. theres more yes for a programmer, it, or artists, blablablabla....but thats a workstation for the general user (90% of people surf, send emails, chat, listen to music, and edit/view documents or look at pictures)...
ok. if your sytem can do all that its my system and ill buy it from you;ppp
haiku looks pro0missing by the way..
p.s. the "everybody uses gmail" was a joke;D
very urgent needed apps list
I want IM system in haiku, but GAIM is not good for that. I want something which can be added as an addon, and works alike emailing. It just pops out when you get a IM message. And it should support most protocols. not forgetting IRC jabber, MSN, ICQ. :) Of course I'd like to turn those off which I don't need.
This is the haiku way! (I gues) :D
--------
I agree. What use is from haiku apps if we don't have haiku?
very urgent needed apps list
my suggestion to you guys is if you can't find good enough apps, make your own! (yes i changed my mind..). i dont like gaim either. i dont really like gtk to be honest...but i appreciate what gtk brings and i would port gtk to beos/haiku its useful.
very urgent needed apps list
In regard to PHP, etc.
Lots of Web developers don't have a mini-cluster to work with; many have one PC, which they use for everything--from Web surfing to reverse engineering--simply out of necessity.
I have a few extra PCs lying around, but I don't want to use them, at least not for things that a primary desktop PC works fine for. Besides, it's much easier to have my source tree on my PC, as well as all the necessary server programs, so I can just open up a file, edit the contents, and boom it's ready to be parsed by PHP. No uploading to another server; no having to setup another server; it just works.
No, Haiku isn't--nor does it intend to be--a server OS. (And thank God for that!) But that's no excuse; I don't run Windows XP as a server either, but I do need various server programs available. That goes for any desktop OS trying to earn me as a user.
That said, let's work on recreating R5 right now. If you can't do that, then go on and start porting over popular applications so that when R1 is finished, people will already have an incentive to give it a chance. Once the userbase grows, new--BeOS/Haiku-native--programs will start to surface.
My point with all this rambling? Simply that many people want one PC and one OS (not fifty different ones), so that they can do all their work in a much more simple way. That doesn't mean we have change our aim of Haiku being a desktop OS. It just means we need to have non-desktop programs available if we expect to earn desktop users.
DarkWyrm's last post kind of says what I was trying to say.
Re: why does everyone want MySQL?
I just saw this the other day, homesite + being my favorite, this looked like a promising app if development continued.
http://www.raycone.com/Constructor/Screenshots.shtml
Bottom Line
People want ubiquity, reliability and style, and, as much bang for the buck as possible. Think telephone and toaster.
The mass market does not want or need to 'peer under the hood'. However, choice is very important.
The reference to function is appropriate because general needs are functional not necessarily application specific.
General functions, do not include developer functions, rather, the opposite is true.
So, the market to satisfy is the mass market, and emhasize ubiquity, reliability and style.
It serves no purpose to have PHP 5 with a happy developer boosting the product, if the general functions do not exist. Buy-in will not occur because the needs of the mass market are not met.
This, I am sure, is unsavory for the fib-fiddlers among us. Scale will come only with boosting how well document creation, financial management, picture viewing, music playing, and other general functions are supported not how well PHP 5 is supported.