Word processors for Haiku?

Forum thread started by ilembitov on Sat, 2009-09-26 10:23

Hi, all.

I've just tried running Haiku in VirtualBox and I must say I am really impressed. There are two things that I found really cool: this is strictly a desktop OS (which means, there aren't really any unnecessary pieces or drivers for server or embedded hardware, which makes system bulkier - being universal is not always a good thing) and it is really integrated. And it's incredibly fast, even in the VM. Oh, and one more thing - I really like the interface, since I prefer flat themes rather than all those glossy 3d bells and whistles. I simply adore the old style of Haiku and its software. To sum up, I am really looking forward to try Haiku in real life as soon as it matures to R1 and gets the laptop-specific functionality (power-saving, wireless, bluetooth, etc.). But there is one more thing.

I think, for many users the main thing about switching to a new OS is whether they will be able to get the apps they need. For me, there are two main apps: a web browser and a word processor. AFAIK, the project of getting a native WebKit-browser is in progress, so it's just a matter of time. But what about word processors?

What I'm looking for is something ideologically close to WordPad. Or, better, the Psion's Word (that was included in the EPOC32 OS for these legendary machines). That is, a distractionless word processor that doesn't get in your way. It needs to support all the basic formatting (footnotes, tables, TOC, paragraph styling, etc) and some writer-specific functionality - but it shouldn't be as big and bloated as OO Writer or MS Word. I rarely need to do something with a document that I couldn't do with a piece of paper in the real life. And I need it to have support for MS Word-editable formats (at least RTF).

I know there is AbiWord for Haiku, but it actually sucks even under Linux. And I know there is LyX, but it's way too powerful for my needs. I work as a journalist and I study at the university, which means that I have to write a lot - so productivity is more important than functionality. Still I have to write academic papers - this is where I have to follow the standards for covers, footnotes, bibliography, etc. - but still I think something bloated is not needed to do that, the formatting is still pretty simple. Besides, the reason I don't want to use ported software is that I like the interface paradigm of Haiku/BeOS apps, so I would prefer something native.

So, does anybody think there is anything like that? I was looking for something like this for Linux for very long, so if Haiku has it, that would be a killer-feature to me =)

Comments

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

StyledEdit (included in Haiku) is more than just a text editor - it will do fonts and colours. There is another editor out there called ElvenEditor that will read and write SE files. The strange thing, though, is that while there is a RTF translator in Haiku alpha1, StyledEdit does not seem to have an Export to RTF function. I do remember there being such a version, right at the end of the BeOS era. Anyone?

With the "Print to PDF" Printer driver you can export to PDF, if that is any consolation.

The #1 Word Processor back in the BeOS days was Gobe Productive. You can get a trial version on Haikuware. But it requires a code to get rid of the trial period restrictions, and Gobe hasn't been selling those codes for over ten years. Maybe there is a BeOS underground movement where you can get that code. In which case I haven't been invited to join. If you can get hold of a Zeta disk, the Gobe Productive on that is said to work. (If you don't know what Zeta was, don't worry about it).

Way back there also was Beatware Write-It. A work of art. Right now it is pure unobtanium and I haven't heard of it working on Haiku.

Of course, you could try Google Docs or one of its competitors. Let us know if that works out.

UPDATE: Gobe Productive can still be bought from Purplus:
http://store.purplus.net/gopr20forbe.html
You could then use the 2.01 updater on haikuware
http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/productivity/office-suit...

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I don't know whether I'm allowed to say/offer this, but, I have a FREE version of Gobe office, it came on one of those free disks in a computer mag about 10 years ago. I have it running on my Haiku works well. Am I allowed to offer it?

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

To be on the safe side, I would say to contact ilembitov here: http://www.haiku-os.org/user/7938/contact.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

@dened
I assume you mean for download? Gobe is a commercial product and you likely have a demo version. I would say no to be safe but you should check the license on the CD.

You could share a demo (trial) version but not the full version of Gobe. There already is a demo version of Gobe Productive 2.0 available. People should acquire the full version of Gobe legally.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Speaking of Gobe, is Gobe Office/Productive still alive and frequently updated? It's a very obscure program anyway for most of us outside the BeOS scene.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

If it helps there is definite hope of getting an updated Gobe Productive for Haiku. I can't go into much detail, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

Of course with that said there might still be a definite market for a nice, simple, open-source Haiku word processor and maybe eventually a small office suite with nice integration like Gobe Productive. I think such an effort would be much better than trying to port foreign beasts like OpenOffice.

Finally once I get the browser out there (if anyone cares I'm the main developer working on that) we will also have a better way to run Google Docs and other online apps. Though in the long run I'm sure everyone would prefer a local app (all the buzz and hoopla around "cloud computing" notwithstanding.)

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Perhaps it would be a bad idea now that I just found out Gobe software is nominally geared towards Windows. I think the only plausible way of introducing a good word processor for Haiku is to make a new one from scratch after Haiku becomes well established. I would prefer the Haiku dev team to have better and more direct control of future applications.

Bazaar-oriented development (like in Linux) is too cumbersome, unproductive, and lacks solid long-term plans. [that's how I see it recently]

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Well Gobe Productive is still very much a BeOS app and in fact the various "ports" only happened because a BeOS compatibility layer was written so Productive could work on Windows and Linux. The core code is still BeOS code.

Otherwise I do agree with your assessment that SOME bazaar-oriented development doesn't go so well. But I think Haiku serves as a counter-example, and shows that open-source development does not have to be like Linux.

Now with that said I don't know if we would want to somehow exert control over future applications. We can define guidelines, we can produce good example applications, we can choose what gets included in a Haiku release, and Haiku software sites can control what gets put on them, but otherwise I don't think we have much (or should have any more) control.

Another nice thing about Haiku is that I think it will foster a much better commercial software ecosystem than Linux. People are probably more likely to produce better applications if they can get paid for them (rather than just scratching their own itch or doing stuff for recognition.) Firefox is probably a lot better because Mozilla can pay people to work on it (because of their revenue from Google.) Linux has improved a lot because people are paid to work on it. Not that people can't produce good software purely as volunteers (Haiku again serves as an example), but money always helps :)

- Ryan Leavengood, Haiku developer

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

"Of course with that said there might still be a definite market for a nice, simple, open-source Haiku word processor and maybe eventually a small office suite with nice integration like Gobe Productive. I think such an effort would be much better than trying to port foreign beasts like OpenOffice."

+1

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

OpenOffice for Haiku would be a monstrosity. The whole BeOS and now Haiku ethos is for small, fast apps that do one thing and do it well IMHO. Gobe Productive was already skirting the outer edges of that. An enhanced StyledEdit with footnote and graphics support would go a long way.

However, support for the OO file formats would be welcome. ODF is becoming the new RTF.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I think an ODF reader/editor would be essential for Haiku, even if this editor wouldn't be OpenOffice itself.

About your special needs Ilembitov, couldn't you consider using the txt2tags format?
http://txt2tags.sf.net/

I find LaTeX too complicated too, while the txt2tags syntax is non obtrusive, for example you mark headers by surrounding the title with == equal sign ==, bold texts are using **stars**, underligned texts are using __underscore__ and so on. With its easy design, and requiring only python (which skips with Haiku), it's really perfect for quickly taking notes and formatting them. The default version doesn't support footnotes, but with its powerful macro system, it's easy to implement one. I've made this which may suits all your needs (and yes, TOC and tabs are possible too):

http://anamnese.online.fr/site2/txt2tex/samples/sample_en.html

I haven't tried to install latex yet on Haiku, but you can still compose your text, export it to html and print it using the pdf printer. And eventually get a better output with the automatic LaTeX conversion, when you have access to another computer with LaTeX:

http://anamnese.online.fr/site2/txt2tex/samples/sample_en.pdf

Actually I compose most of my documents using this system, and the source document being textual, it's not a problem to open my files on Haiku. Here is a sample of the source for the 2 previous documents:

http://anamnese.online.fr/site2/txt2tex/samples/sample_en.t2t

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Michel wrote:

The whole BeOS and now Haiku ethos is for small, fast apps that do one thing and do it well IMHO.

Quite true. I might be crazy to talk like this but I prefer the Haiku team to have total control of their mainstream applications (multimedia or office works).

It's because successful operating systems like Windows or Apple have one common characteristic: a lot of their major important applications are total-controlled by the same group that manages the operating system.

Apple OSX = Safari, iTunes
Windows = Windows Media Player, Microsoft Office

[I apologize in advance if I offend someone, especially the developers]

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I'm with you, interested. In fact, Apple controls a whole lot more than what you mentioned. Between them, iWorks and iLife cover perhaps 80% of what the average computer user want to do with a computer. Throw in Safari, Mail etc and you can go a long way with just Apple software and a bitmap graphics editor. OK, and maybe Bento, though it is a bit pricey.

But there is nothing to stop someone from thinking that he can write a better [whatever] than Apple. Safari may come for free with OSX, but there are half a dozen other browsers that have a following on the Mac platform, and even more obscure ones.

And in the end, that is what it comes down to. No secret APIs, no sneaky ways to throttle the performance of competitors [cough ... Microsoft..cough]. I'm hoping that Haiku can achieve that, without dropping into the total chaos that is Linux. We are already seeing people bringing out Haiku distros, but the official release can act as a reference platform. If it doesn't run on the official release, it's not a Haiku app, that sort of thing.

Leavengood:"If it helps there is definite hope of getting an updated Gobe Productive for Haiku."

With Haiku's license, in fact they could bring out GobeOS! How cool would that be?

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Well, the point is really that we have to move away from this whole idea of an office suite that locks you in (and this also applies to Gobe!) Rather, one should get the best word processor they can find and the best spreadsheet they can find and mix and match everything.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

leavengood wrote:

Well Gobe Productive is still very much a BeOS app and in fact the various "ports" only happened because a BeOS compatibility layer was written so Productive could work on Windows and Linux. The core code is still BeOS code.
- Ryan Leavengood, Haiku developer

Ryan, your comment worths the wait for a year long, see my post in July 08 quoted here: (http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/wine_on_haiku)

`I hate to add yet another expectation rather than one concrete good news, but have you guys heard of the return of GoBe Productive in its ver. 3.04 for Windows? (http://www.gobe.com/home.html, with download for trial). The Windows ver. is impressive in its lightness, speed, close integration, reasonable richness in features to meet practical needs, and compatibility with MS Office.
And it is interesting to know if GoBe Productive for Win is based on GP2 for BeOS, or a totally new work from scratch free of any BeOS relevance.
Readers of this thread may find Mr Jorge Mare's letter to Haiku fans in Jan gives more details :

http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/01-2008/msg00012.html'

In my limited experience with both Gobe Productive 3.04 for Win and OpenOffice v.3x, I found GP3.04 actually has better compatibility with MS Office, and even faster in performance. This alone can be a huge magnet to attract MS Office users and ensure the success of a Haiku office suite.

The importance of an office suite to a desktop OS needs no more emphasis, and together both benifit from synergy effect.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Well, I must say among all humane readable markup languages I love txt2tags the best. Actually, most of lightweight markup languages have two types of origin: there are ones that were intended to be a documentation tool with support for conversion to manpages/etc; and those intended to be an easier way to get HTML (like Markdown or most wiki-oriented flavours). Txt2tags is better in this regard, but there are still features it really ought to have: text alignment (when I've last seen it, it didn't have a straightforward way to get center position of text and stuff like this), RTF support (afaik, there is no way to get that - or ODF, although both were planned a long time ago), footnotes and some features that it won't ever get (because it goes against its original vision) but are needed for my work: the ability to define intervals and the ability to manage the page layout. I hate to say that, but although I hate the WYSIWYG approach, in this regard only an advanced solution like lout, troff or LaTeX is required. Unlike the western tradition, in Russia the cover page of an academic paper is actually a separate page that only has the author information, and there are strict requirements as to where should all the entries appear - you can't do that in txt2tags.
Bu thanks anyways, I still use it when I am working on something I don't have to send to anyone.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Well, I must say among all humane readable markup languages I love txt2tags the best. Actually, most of lightweight markup languages have two types of origin: there are ones that were intended to be a documentation tool with support for conversion to manpages/etc; and those intended to be an easier way to get HTML (like Markdown or most wiki-oriented flavours). Txt2tags is better in this regard, but there are still features it really ought to have: text alignment (when I've last seen it, it didn't have a straightforward way to get center position of text and stuff like this), RTF support (afaik, there is no way to get that - or ODF, although both were planned a long time ago), footnotes and some features that it won't ever get (because it goes against its original vision) but are needed for my work: the ability to define intervals and the ability to manage the page layout. I hate to say that, but although I hate the WYSIWYG approach, in this regard only an advanced solution like lout, troff or LaTeX is required. Unlike the western tradition, in Russia the cover page of an academic paper is actually a separate page that only has the author information, and there are strict requirements as to where should all the entries appear - you can't do that in txt2tags.
Bu thanks anyways, I still use it when I am working on something I don't have to send to anyone.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

StyledEdit isn't really what I need, but it's pretty nice and straightforward, so I could actually use it in my work (but not at the university, where I need more formatting features) as soon as it gets RTF output support. Second, I wish it supported more shortcuts, so that I could use bold/italic/underline, choose text alignment without using any menus. Other than that, that's a nice tool.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

ilembitov wrote:

StyledEdit isn't really what I need, but it's pretty nice and straightforward, so I could actually use it in my work (but not at the university, where I need more formatting features) as soon as it gets RTF output support. Second, I wish it supported more shortcuts, so that I could use bold/italic/underline, choose text alignment without using any menus. Other than that, that's a nice tool.

Please log an enhancement about adding more shortcuts to StyledEdit, as I at least agree that might be handy. In fact I'm sort of surprised there aren't shortcuts for bold, italic, etc. They should be pretty easy to add, just copying the standard shortcuts used on most systems (Alt-B, Alt-I, Alt-U.)

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I'm glad you know and like txt2tags.

>Txt2tags is better in this regard, but there are still features it really ought to have:
>text alignment (when I've last seen it, it didn't have a straightforward way to get
>center position of text and stuff like this)

it's probably possible to do this by using macros:

For example I implemented footnote in LaTeX using this macro:

%!postproc(tex): '°°(.*?)°°' '\\footnote{\1}'
%!postproc(xhtml): '°°(.*?)°°' ' (\1)'

(in html it's only displaying notes in brackets but it could be improved)

>the ability to define intervals and the ability to manage the page layout

If your target format is html or latex or whatever, you can consider making a similar macro for alignment as the one above. You can also make a code/shortcut for adding <--div align=center> for example, or special margin intervals. (the reason why I made the projet described above, txt2tex)

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Does OmegaT or any other CAT tool compile on haiku? A translator needs more than just a wordprocessor.

http://www.omegat.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OmegaT

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Apologies for picking this thread up again so late, but if you install the QT4 demo pack -http://downloads.beosfrance.com/Qt4HaikuDemoPack_a1.zip - you will find an interesting proof-of-concept word processor that will write .ODT files, though it does not seem to read them.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Interested wrote:

It's because successful operating systems like Windows or Apple have one common characteristic: a lot of their major important applications are total-controlled by the same group that manages the operating system.

Apple OSX = Safari, iTunes
Windows = Windows Media Player, Microsoft Office

Now I'm no regular Mac user, but from what I've seen there are lots of high quality non-Apple that appear to fit in perfectly with the OS. I think it's just that Apple seem to have better design guidelines, while in Linux and to some extent even in Windows developers do what they feel like. And once all applications follow this well defined standards, both in how things look, feel and communicate with other apps, even new developers will probably get things right even without having studied all design docs in detail. Well that's my theory at least :)

So I think Haiku doesn't need total control central applications, as long as they have clear and concise design documents (The HIG is a good start). But there's no doubt the OS would benefit from being shipped with a suite of fully functional free software.

leavengood wrote:

Another nice thing about Haiku is that I think it will foster a much better commercial software ecosystem than Linux. People are probably more likely to produce better applications if they can get paid for them (rather than just scratching their own itch or doing stuff for recognition.) Firefox is probably a lot better because Mozilla can pay people to work on it (because of their revenue from Google.) Linux has improved a lot because people are paid to work on it. Not that people can't produce good software purely as volunteers (Haiku again serves as an example), but money always helps :)

I think you have a good point there. Though Firefox is also an example that all products with paid developers don't have to be commercial :)

Now I'm not against commercial software, but I think there seems to be a lot of hobby programmers who over estimate the value of their programs. Personally I'd rather have 100000 people who use my software for free (possibly giving me a few donations and revenue from ads on my homepage) than 100 users paying $30 each (also assuming distributor would take a cut and that I'd pay taxes). But that's of course up to each and everyone to decide for their own software. Umm, maybe going a little too much OT.. sorry about the rant

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

fhein wrote:

Now I'm no regular Mac user, but from what I've seen there are lots of high quality non-Apple that appear to fit in perfectly with the OS. I think it's just that Apple seem to have better design guidelines, while in Linux and to some extent even in Windows developers do what they feel like. And once all applications follow this well defined standards, both in how things look, feel and communicate with other apps, even new developers will probably get things right even without having studied all design docs in detail. Well that's my theory at least :)

So I think Haiku doesn't need total control central applications, as long as they have clear and concise design documents (The HIG is a good start). But there's no doubt the OS would benefit from being shipped with a suite of fully functional free software.

Good point about HIG. I don't like Mac OS X looks (basically, I hate everything 3D, glossy and transparent in interfaces and hardware as well), but all the apps do look intergrated in terms of appearance. Don't know about their interaction, though. However, many of them seem to use Growl notification, for instance - something Ubuntu and KDE try to do now.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Yes, I know this thread dates back to when dinosaurs roamed the earth, but here's a bit of shameless self-promotion that is actually relevant to the thread:

http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/productivity/word-processors...

Rondel is a text editor. Nothing special about it, you've used text editors before. But Rondel allows you to insert Markdown formatting codes and to generate HTML files from its own files.

Rondel is built on the Trope engine and contains a copy of mkd2html (part of the Discount Markdown package, licensed under a BSD-style License, source included). Version numbers for Rondel track those of the Trope engine.

Screenshot: http://haikuware.com/components/com_remository_files/file_image_2927/img...

If I get hundreds of downloads I'll do a txt2tags version. OK, I'll settle for dozens of downloads. And SEND FEEDBACK.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

If i try hard, perhaps I can download 100 times in a day, but dont ask me for tousand or more, that's too much :))

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

http://www.hermocom.com/products/hplx/lxrtf#download

lxRTF is a markup language developed for HP Palmtop LX (IBM XT in your hand). It takes in a simple markup document and produces rtf output.

I mention it because the (35 kb!) download zip file contains the following:

0HISTORY.TXT
0README.TXT
0REFCARD.TXT
ADDSPACE.C
ADDSPACE.EXE
CHOICE.COM
EXAMPLE.RTX
header.rth
LETTER.RTX
LXRTF.BAT
ppt.rtx
SED.EXE
SEDRTF.SED
XGREP.COM

which is to say, apart from 'ADDSPACE.EXE', which is just a C program, it just uses SED and GREP plus a DOS batch file, basically, plus CHOICE, a simple DOS command which I'm sure would be easy to implement if not already done.

I suspect this is of interest to no-one, but I thought I would mention it. I suspect someone who knows something about computers could implement lxRTF in Haiku pretty easily.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Thanks to TiltOS & QtHaiku, Abiword and Koffice can run on Haiku...

BTW "something" (even just an OpenDocument reader, such as Visioo) native&integrated would be cool !

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

cipri wrote:

If i try hard, perhaps I can download 100 times in a day, but dont ask me for tousand or more, that's too much :))

Bring ten friends? :-)

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Darreng wrote:

lxRTF is a markup language developed for HP Palmtop LX (IBM XT in your hand). It takes in a simple markup document and produces rtf output.

Interesting. Downloaded and will be looked at, thanks.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

forart.it wrote:

Thanks to TiltOS & QtHaiku, Abiword and Koffice can run on Haiku...

People say that Abiword and Koffice run under Haiku but I don't think they do. If you personally are running Abiword or Koffice on Haiku A3, please let me know. I am VERY interested and would like to document the installation process.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I can confirm that the current TiltOS build of koffice (2.1.0) doesn't run under recent builds of Haiku and nor does the Haikuware Abiword package. I had a quick search but I failed to find any BeOS source code for AbiWord 2.4. I would be delighted to see TiltOS updated with the latest KDE/QT libs as well as Calligra, which is the new name for the koffice project.

http://www.calligra-suite.org/

Calligra is supposed to have made significant advances since the last koffice release - 2.3.3 - notably in its handling of both MSXML and opendocument files.

I have wrote to the admin of TiltOS to see if he had and plans to update TiltOS with no response so it looks like a zombie project which is a shame as it formed the basis of the koffice standalone installer. which I should imagine will also not work under recent Haiku builds.

Even better of course would be if Haiku became an officially supported platform of either Calligra or Libreoffice - should any of these things occur it will be a huge boost for both the validity and usability of Haiku as a desktop OS. Work has started on porting OOo4kids, a stripped-down OpenOffice, to Haiku but its early days for that project and the GUI doesn't even build yet the last I heard.

Another great boost to Haiku as an open source desktop would be if someone added Excel, ODS and CSV support to the open sum-it spreadsheet.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I just noticed that Abiword 2.8 is in Haikuports. I've not tried it yet but it sounds like its best not to get any high expectations about actually being able to use it yet.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

It's my understanding that Calligra, LibreOffice, OpenOffice ports would require a lot of work to run on Haiku. Not out of the question but would certainly require dedication by a good programmer.

ABIWord is open source, and getting it to run would be an incremental update. Probably a lot less work.

The same goes for KOffice. This also would be an incremental update.

Having a decent word processor for Haiku is a top level necessity. Maybe we should put a bounty on it.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Calligra is simply the new name for koffice so it should be no harder to get calligra running than the latest koffice release (2.3.3) and significantly easier to update/port than any other office suite or wp app I would imagine save a fully native BeOS one like Gobe.

When the standalone koffice installer used to work under Haiku I was greatly impressed with the load times and responsiveness of kword, kpresenter etc. The K apps seemed every bit as snappy as native Haiku apps and seemed to run better than they did under Linux bar the fact that kspread wasn't included and nor did printing directly to a printer work at the time.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I can only talk about KOffice/Calligra as I tried to port it once, I had built most of its dependencies, then accidentally deleted all of those libraries and called it a day... I was frustrated since it took me hours and hours of tries.

Now, about porting Calligra... it's not a huge amount of work, really, we have Qt and some of the dependencies for KDE stuff is available on HaikuPorts. The real problem there is compiling the KDE libs needed for it to run, which need lots of dependencies needing other dependencies and so on... I can tell you it's not an easy task, but it's pretty much doable in a reasonable amount of time (1 week, tops) and way easier than porting Abiword, since we'd neet either GTK+ or a new GUI for it IIRC.

Now, if TiltOS worked we could just download the needed KDE libs right away, as the ones ported meet the minimum requirements to build Calligra... too bad the downloader is broken and I have no idea how to unpack those .box files.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I'm working on a native app called masterpiece, its not a word processor per say, since i hate the constant fighting with word processors, but it uses the restructured text docutils python backend to use rst formatted text to convert it to xml, html, odt, tex and if i can get the rst2pdf python code working, it'll also convert to pdf. its in its infancy, I need to add settings and formatting templates for custom styles, rst is pretty robust and brings a lot of features with it, I just need to build the framework to support all the features. you can head on over to http://code.google.com/p/masterpiece/ if anyone's interested. there aren't any graphics or documents, just the ability to browse the source.

if anyone is interested in the app and would like me to work on one feature over another let me know.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Sounds cool. Please upload a copy to haikuware.com when you are ready.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

@MichaelPeppers

Thats great news about the KDE libs in Tilt meeting the min requirements for Calligra, something I was going to check up on, because I know the downloader and its repo do still work under recent Haiku builds or at least they did work a couple of days ago when I downloaded koffice for Tilt. I have no idea how to extract (not install) a box file though but I don't think you'd need to as long as they install OK right? I've got the nasty feeling that the Tilt KDE libs won't work under recent Haiku builds but I hope I'm wrong.

I would note though that I had to try about 10 times before I successfully downloaded the oxygen-icons package from Tilt.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

@danboid

These are the KDE requirements for Calligra:

kdelibs and kdelibs development files

    the minimal requirement is currently 4.3.0, any 4.3, 4.4 or 4.5 release packaged in your distribution is OK

kdebase/runtime 4.3 or newer 

this is the repo of TiltOS: http://files.tiltos.com/repos/core/

So... yes, the packages meet the minimum requirements and they are still available online.
Now, if I recall correcly, last time I tried the downloader it wasn't able to download much stuff I tried, uncluding the libraries, so I honestly don't think KOffice installs well. Might be wrong though.
But as you said the real problem is if they're working on this period's builds. I'm pretty much sure they won't work. Those libs were compiled with the gcc4 compiler on Alpha 2 or a revision from mid-to-late 2010, since then Haiku's gcc4 has gone through changes, breaking applications and libraries from that period of time. I think the KOffice version packaged with TiltOS can only be used on Alpha 2.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

MichaelPeppers wrote:

These are the KDE requirements for Calligra:

kdelibs and kdelibs development files

    the minimal requirement is currently 4.3.0, any 4.3, 4.4 or 4.5 release packaged in your distribution is OK

kdebase/runtime 4.3 or newer 

We should not rely on TiltOS since it is out of our control. The correct way would be to make haikuport-packages. How much work is it to create .bep-files for them, and later on for Calligra?

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Well, maybe it's possible to update TiltOS. This should at least be investigated
for feasibility.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I like the way Chakra Linux handles pkgs with gtk+. They try to be gtk-free, so those apps are "bundles" like MacOSX ones.. in future it could be useful to see something similar for Haiku and GNU/Linux software.. just my two cents, I'm not trying to ask for a feature, just perhaps giving an advice on how to handle GNU/Linux software without having too much "rubbish"..

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

franz1789 wrote:

I like the way Chakra Linux handles pkgs with gtk+. They try to be gtk-free, so those apps are "bundles" like MacOSX ones.

It's been done, actually. The version of the Arora browser you can download on Haikuware contains just those QT libraries the program actually needs. That was during the Alpha2 days IIRC and I don't know if it still runs. But as a proof-of-concept it shows that it can be done. No reason it could not be done with a word processor.

Of course, you would end up with multiple copies of libraries on your system, but who cares? Hard drives are cheap. But the developer would really have to know the QT system well and would have to test, test and test again.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

No no NOOOOoooOOOoo!!! :)

Thats a really bad idea! Having a separate copy of GTK or QT on a per app basis is the way most FOSS apps are distributed under Windows and it stinks- it really gets to me and in my eyes is exactly what SHOULDN'T be happening with Haiku. One of the best, most promising features about Haiku is that it is/has the potential to be a streamlined, non-bloaty OS and this 'whole set of huge libs per app included with every package' concept is the very definition of bloat and would ruin an otherwise very sleek and efficient OS.

As someone else mentioned above, the best place for Qt right now would be in Haiku ports but when it gets done it would be best to have Qt in the Haiku package manager too as I'd imagine Qt is no fun to compile (especially on slower/older machines) and Haiku ports also doesn't resolve dependencies and I'd imagine Qt has quite a few although I've never had to compile it under Linux so I don't really know.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

OK danbold, I'll bite. How exactly would it ruin the sleek and efficient OS? Can you be more specific?

The user downloads a zip file and unzips it to Applications. It runs. No need to wonder if MyWonderfulLibrary0.4.5.2.so is installed instead of MyWonderfulLibrary0.4.5.1.so. If app A needs one version and app B needs another, each has exactly what it requires.

This works perfectly well in Mac OSX. It works under ROX and, it seems, under Chakra Linux (hadn't heard of that one before). If it doesn't work well under Windows, well, lots of things don't work well under Windows.

And if you don't use QT programs then none of those libraries will be on your system. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you install it. When you are not running a QT app, they are not clogging up your RAM. All that it is permanently taking up is disk space. Sure, running lots of QT apps this way would fill up your memory. Which is why they invented swap space. A stick of RAM doesn't cost the earth either.

I am not in favour of QT apps, actually. I want to see strong native apps. But nobody is writing any, which is why we are having this discussion. Still, what precisely is your objection, beyond a vague philosophical aversion to filling up hard drives? Can you tell me just how it would negatively affect the user? Remember the user? The guy who actually clicks the icon to start up a full-featured word processor? Which, right now he CANNOT do on Haiku, because there isn't one? You can have your streamlined, non-bloaty OS but if you have nothing more sophisticated than StyledEdit to use on it, well there's not much point to it, is there?

The QT port has been around for some two years. If the devs were crazy about QT and willing to add it to the repo, they would have done it by now. And we really should stop pretending that Haiku is all about continuing to use that old 386 mouldering away in the basement. Hands up if you are running Haiku on anything less than a CoreDuo with 2GB of RAM and 250GB of disk space. Nobody?

Haiku will not expand beyond the current population of geek hobbyists unless you can use it to perform the same everyday tasks that you can do on all the mainstream platforms. We need apps and we need them fast. If someone posts a port of Calligra with all its dependencies in a subfolder. It will be on my Haiku partition as fast as I can download it. Would I prefer a native word processor? Of course. So write me one, somebody! Sorry, my skills aren't up to it.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I run Haiku on an atom based netbook with 1GB RAM at home and it runs fantastic but upgrading its RAM isn't an option so I do really appreciate dynamically linked apps RAM-wise and I do lots of imaging so I really appreciate the greatly reduced disk footprint of Haiku and Linux over the mammoth Windows 7 and its hordes of kitchen sink bloatware bullshit apps. These are only possible under Haiku/Linux/BSD thanks to open source software and dynamic linking in a well maintained repo, all of which can potentially be achieved in a superior, more consistent manner under Haiku than the fragmented Linux distros.

Whatever it is that comes along to replace 'installoptionalextras' could potentially have a Haiku Qt port in it as well as Calligra, qtractor, OpenoctaveMIDI, qsampler, k3b or whatever your fave Qt apps may be. All these apps can be dynamically linked to the same Qt library because they're open source so they just need willing Haiku maintainers most likely. It is only closed source apps that may need to do static linking of Qt.

I am 100% pro Qt under Haiku but I also advocate Qt should not be a standard part of the OS as I, like most everyone else here I'm sure, want to see the encouragement of more native Haiku apps but we'll be waiting at least a decade to see native FOSS Haiku apps that rival the cream of the Linux Qt apps out there right now so we do gain a lot through having a well maintained Qt port and repo. Same goes for JACK audio to a lesser extent.

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

Seamonkey (using the Composer html-creator tool) can be used as to create html hyper-text formatted documents. It's quite useful.

It can be downloaded here (note: the browser does not connect to the internet, but anyway you'd only be using the Composer part of Seamonkey):

http://haikuware.com/remository/view-details/internet-network/web-browse...

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

I would love to see bundles for non standard software in Haiku. I think dependencies and libs control of GNU/Linux is frustrating (and I loved it a lot), don't want to look for how many disasters a non-Haiku software I used and removed could cause in my system folders..

Re: Word processors for Haiku?

WARNING: Shameless self-promotion ahead!

My txt2tags compatible text editor for Haiku, Tyburn, is now up on Haikuware:
http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/productivity/word-processors...

It joins the Markdown-compatible version, called Rondel:
http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/productivity/word-processors...

In both programs, a subset of the formatting codes can be entered from the menu but the bundled utilities can handle any other formatting codes you enter manually.

Rondel will export to HTML. Tyburn can export to HTML, RTF, LaTeX and a heckuva lot of lesser-known formats. Both are built on the Trope engine:
http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/development/sample-code/trope

All three are public domain, with yab source code supplied. Test them to destruction, make your own version, take the code and use it as the foundation to build your software empire on it, whatever ...

No, it's not a word processor. But it's a start.

Please leave your comments, suggestions and verbal abuse on the Haikuware pages for each program.