YellowTAB == insolvent?
Because I haven't got much time, here's a roughly cleaned up translation of Google's translation engine:
Developer of BeOS successor Zeta in distressYellowTAB , manufacturer of the multimedia operating system and BeOS successor Zeta , is possibly insolvent. The district court Mannheim received a request for insolvency procedures. The court therefore denied [YellowTAB] access to their bank accounts and ordered a provisional insolvency manager. According to information from its lawyers an insolvency opening procedure is currently under way, which is to uncover within three months whether the enterprise is actually insolvent and whether an insolvency is present.
YellowTAB employees explained to heise online, that the request definitely didn't originate from within the company itself, but from an external applicant [possibly with malicious intent]. Managing director Bernd Thorsten Korz was not available for a statement ( hps /c't)
Well, I must say, I never understood, how a company like YellowTAB could sustain itself. Certainly not by selling beta versions of its OS to unsuspecting computer illiterates through a TV shopping channel.
But, of course, we're going to have to see, what'll come of this.
(edit: forgot the link to the heise.de story (in German): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/71775)
Chris
Comments
YellowTAB == insolvent?
That's very interesting ... whilst I know nothing about business laws ... how does an outside party put in a request to have a company made insolvent ? I would have thought the request wouldn't have been handled unless there was evidence or the people making the request had a vested interest.
We'll have to keep our eyes on this one ...
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Hopefully they'll die, and release Zeta (And all of their works) for free :P.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Except they probably are not licensed to release any code derived from the original BeOS code free anyway...
YellowTAB == insolvent?
From what I gathered from looking around on the web for info on German laws in this case:
Conditions for such a request (for insolvency proceedings) are:
*) The debt must not be marginal
*) No intentions that are not in the spirit of the insolvency proceedings (like, e.g., eliminating a competitor) must be the cause for the request
*) The request must not be unfairly used as a means to exercise pressure
If the insolvency proceeding has been filed by an outsider, that outsider has to be a creditor.
That creditor has to prove the plausibility of yT being insolvent. He further has to prove (with according documents) that he (or she/it) is, in fact, a creditor and that the debtor is unable to (and that is my attempt at translating lawyer speak) substantially repay the debt.
Sufficient proof for this is a certificate of a bailiff for an unsuccessful enforcement attempt or the assurance in lieu of an oath over the cessation of payment.
The (German language) source for this translation attempt (and an attempt it is, since English isn't my native language and the vocabulary is alien to me) can be read here (section 3.1 Gläubigerantrag)
Well, from what I understand, even given that it was filed by a third party, this insolvency request cannot just be a prank or something. Whether YellowTAB will be with us for long anymore remains to be seen.
Chris
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Couldn't OSDL buy this company then release everything under the GPL?
YellowTAB == insolvent?
No.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
The problem is that YellowTab is NOT the original copyright holders of the code. They have been (allegedly) granted a license to use/modify the code and distribute binaries built from the code, but they are still not the copyright holders of the original code.
Only the original copyright holders can change the license or "sell" the code - unless yT bought it in the first place.
A license to use/modify/distribute is not necessarily the same as "ownership".
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Personally, I dont want Zeta to die. They're cooperating with Haiku and all... i dont really care if an OS is open source or not, as long as it doesnt use restrictive methods... all i have to open source purists - die.. Sometimes making things open source also reduces the quality of engineering. example? The code to render a webpage in KHTML is waaaay cleaner than the one for Gecko, as gecko has many more contributors...
I still dont see how many feel opensource aint communism but enjoy flaming em (not maoist or stallin... i mean marxist maybe, non socialist).
[BTW i support communism and open source]
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but KHTML is open-source, isn't it?
The rest of your post went over my head.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I'm not an open-source zealot, but I think you're missing a couple points there.
KHTML is open-source (as noted by togs_01)
With open source, anyone can take the code and re-engineer it for quality if you want.
Anyone has the right to start over, use the open-source code as a reference!
Most software deserves to be re-written a few times - it helps remove the cruft and improve the underlying design.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I cannot see how this can be anything but bad for the BeOS community. I hope it all works out.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Gecko is based of code coming from Netscape's closed source, and that code was nasty. In fact the code has improved a lot since it became open. KHTML has a more 'modern' approach, which is good. The comparison is a bit like comparing a 1960's car to one from last year. :wink:
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I was aware you people are gonna say that, but im afraid you have overlooked that in that part of the post, im talking bout "community involvement". Im clearly aware that KHTML is open source, but relies on Qt Toolkit thus less people use it than Gecko, which is completely cross platform
Too much community involvement *will* weaken the quality of engineering, no doubt. Sure it can be better IF, but its always stuck at the if part - it doesnt happen all the time... i mean, linux got more community involvement than BSD. But many prefer BSD cuz they find it less *chaotic*. Waz this "chaos" they speak of? Too much contribution causing the code to lose its quality... this chaos is evident for any code though
And i already said it - i support open source yes, but im not one of the freak zealots who wish that every company in this world dies for the code to be open sourced and bull like that
@tqh: so can i say, Zeta goin open source wont be too great just like gecko? @_@
YellowTAB == insolvent?
The only way I can see this being good news for the BeOS community is if YT had bought the IP (not simply licensed it) from Palm... and only then if they decide to open source what can be open sourced. I don't see this happening. I figure YT licensed the code. I'm now sad. :(
BTW, chaotic code doesn't result from too many contributors. It results from lack of organization, which includes planning and setting goals for the project. You've confused the two (# of contributors & lack of organization) because it's easier to organize a handfull of contributors rather than an army of them.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Ya i know but more people almost always results in weaker co ordination doesnt it?
Whatever it is... i dont want yT to die no matter what. They're doing some good for the Haiku community too, so be it..
YellowTAB == insolvent?
If there is logic in there I can't find it. Sorry. It made me laugh though.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
If you mean the lines i indicated you, yes i meant em with no logic at all :P
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I hope people are not coming to use the term GPL as a synonym for open source. I don't see myself ever realeasing code under the GPL. I prefer the MIT(X11)(MIT is Haiku's licence of choice) and BSD licences.
If opensource is communism like Leaflord implied, I think I like my communism with the anarchic freedom that the other licences give me. Not the one party rule, totoliterian communism that I would get with the GPL (all figuratively speaking of course).
Ever read that anything dynamically liked to something GPL may have to be GPL too? It depends on how courts rule on derivitive works (This is an undetermined legal mess that I wouldn't want to touch with a 10 meter pole.) (There is LGPL though which is slightly better)
I don't want to see any GPL code integrated into the core of Haiku, I like the current licence much better.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I've always suspected it would be exceptionally easy to circumvent that detail...
Can't you simply create a binary-compatible stub of the library you intend to link against, compile with the stub, and simply swap the library afterward? That wouldn't be much different than compiling windows apps and running them on Wine, or vice versa right? I guess maybe there could be some controversy over the intent...
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I was thinking this exactly, and I couldn't have said it better myself.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
For more information about Haiku's choice of the MIT licence check newsletter 23 in the archives(The third section).
(and a quick appology for mis-typing Leaflord's name, I officialy blame it on temporary dislexia induced by overwork and a lack of sleep)
YT possible demise
I know lots of people are glad to see multiple ports of BeOS, I for one cant help but wonder what if?? What if all that effort had been put into just one release? How far would Haiku be now if all that effort and funding had been put to a single objective. You cant force people to volunteer to work where they dont want to, neither can you expect everyone to agree on a single way for something to be done. But still I wonder how far would we be now.
Regardless of how things have come to pass, we are now with several projects that have varying degrees of compatibility, i am not sure how much sharing has gone on between them, one would think that the more they shared the faster developement would happen, depending on compatibility of course, not sure if a driver for Zeta would work on Haiku for example. How much each fork of BeOS is compatible with each other I guess depends on how far they branched from the main tree.
My last point is this, in the end when Haiku is finally released, how muh competition will it have with other remakes of BeOS. How many who bought Zeta will now try Haiku when it comes? How many who dabled with BlueEyed OS will come work with Haiku. In the end I think the fewer versions of the OS the better, How many companies want to try to support 3-5 different versions of the same OS?
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I dont really mind, even if you intended it - cuz the people in inRB (india Ragnarok Online forums) enjoy doing that stuff all the time :roll:
Neways, yes, when i meant communism, i mean more of anarchial communism..
Re: YT possible demise
I know that for some of the ideas I have in the kettle, I will be shooting for Haiku support first, Zeta second, and bugger the rest.
This is what beunited has on their list: BlueEyedOS, Cosmoe, Gnube, Haiku and Zeta.
BlueEyed seems to be dead, Cosmoe hasn't had an update in well over a year, Gnube is dead (AFAIK), Haiku is moving ahead at a great pace and Zeta has a release out. Going by that list there's only two realistic choices for support anyway, which is better then five. :)
I hope that Haiku doesn't end up being split by another mob, although they are legally allowed to, better to further the "official" Haiku, I think.
Zeta officialy in trouble
YellowTab as officially been placed under the protection of the German bankruptcy law. Please note that it does not mean that the company is bankrupt. For the moment, there is an audit going-on to clarify if the company has to be declared bankrupt or not.
Everybody interested in this story should read this article:
http://www.yellowtab.com/news/article.php?id=192
Well, as long as there is this audit going on, nothing much can be said about the future of YellowTab, but points 9 and 10 of this article make me feel that the end is quite near...
Point 10 is like giving away Zeta for free... how on earth do they plan to receive money if anobody can rely on the internet to get an "activation free" version of Zeta? And concerning support for application and drivers, I think that bebits + internet communities can be as helpfull as the YellowTab hotline...
Seems to me that YellowTab has kind of given-up making money...
Point 9 may indicate that we can hope for access to its source code.
Re: Zeta officialy in trouble
What I don't get is the Questions/Answers on that page seem to suggest that they've already collaborated with Haiku on the Intel Extreme drivers - but I haven't seen any code checked into SVN yet... did they give this code to somebody and it hasn't been checked into the tree yet? - or did they simply forget to give it to Haiku?
As for source code to Zeta - I think the only thing they can legally release is any code they've written from scratch. I doubt they are licensed to release original code written by Be, Inc.
Re: Zeta officialy in trouble
Check this out: http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drive...
It was checked in a couple of weeks ago..
Re: Zeta officialy in trouble
Thats Axel's driver, not yT's.
Re: Zeta officialy in trouble
Yes as MYOB stated - that's the code Axel checked in BEFORE yT decided to donate theirs.
If you look at the top of each file, you'll see that it clearly states Axel is the author, not yT.
Re: Zeta officialy in trouble
Ok, my mistake. Sorry
YellowTAB == insolvent?
With all of the controversy of Microsoft in the European Union, Microsoft might be banned from selling products in Europe. That opens up a huge opportunity for yellowTab to sell to new computer manufacturers.
All yellowTab has to do is hope that Microsoft is banned from Europe, and then stay alive until then.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Hmm yea it sure would help Zeta cuz...
1. Not everyone uses linux as desktop
2. as PC dates we either upgrade hardware or the OS
3. macs mean buying a new one...
But its defnitely not "OMFG 666.666% RISE IN SALES!!"
Just my 2 cents..
YellowTAB == insolvent?
You don't really believe this, do you? The chances for that to happen are approximately 0.000%
YellowTAB == insolvent?
@ChrisK: this has chances actually
In windows 95, microsoft coloured 7 pixels of indian kashmir as pakistan-occupied-kashmir. Cuz of this, not only was there a public outrage in india, the govt if im not mistaken was a tad offended too and MS had to pull back all the copies, and had to suffer from some losses...
YellowTAB == insolvent?
And they stopped colour any countries on the map, at all, in the next version. Problem solved :P
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I know, but lez hope similiar stuff wont happen with MS in europe now :P
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I doubt Europeans would react that stupid.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Not a ban of course... maybe some restrictions that give open space for others to fill in or such. MS will obviously take action - europe is easily too big a place to ignore. Thus europe CAN be "dumb" enough to ban MS, which would force MS to comply to the conditions...
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I don't think they are dumb enough in MS to get ban from europe which would result as definetly something good and user-friendly.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Here's an update - a news article has been posted on the popular German news site Golem.de
Trying to sum up some of the more important points in English:
At the moment, though, development of Zeta seems to be at a standstill. There are promises of games conversions, e.g. a "Settlers" clone, "Robin Hood" or "Airline Tycoon", which could be shown along with Zeta 1.3 (whether by real ports or through emulation isn't known)
(ChrisK, who remembers well, when the Amiga brand had once been sold to retailers like Escom and then Gateway, and how much good (i.e. nothing) that had done to the Amiga platform)
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Well, that's pretty interesting!
Thanks for posting an English translation!
YellowTAB == insolvent?
Sad day, I reckon.
YellowTAB == insolvent?
I wonder if this means that Zeta 1.2 (maybe 1.3) will be the last version of Zeta that we will see. I hope this won't affect the BeOS(general term) user base in a negetive way when it comes time to release Haiku R1.
Though if this is the end of Zeta, it does leave a gap that will need to be filled (by Haiku) for an updated OS. That is, if Haiku can develop fast enough to do the job.