General Haiku Discussion

Here you can talk about anything relating to Haiku.

Reasons FOR a package manager

Forum thread started by ohiomike on Fri, 2010-05-07 21:07

As a newbie (although with 30+ years of DOS/CPM/VersaDos/UNIX/Linux/Windows development background), I would like to see a package manager.

* It will make things much easier for "drive-by" testers, which resemble the long term target users. All Haiku users in year 201x are NOT going to be "power users", lets make it possible for them to install software. I have ended up with left-overs all over the place from installing FireFox and VNC on a nightly install system (R1A1 would not run on my H/W, the nightly install did).

* At some point in time we/you need to deal with "library bloat". If every package installed has it's own copy of it's support libs, the disk will fill up fast. In an "ideal world" I would like to see a common /lib directory setup as such:

At Install-
1) Check for lib already installed.
1a) If installed and the version is the same use installed.
1b) If not installed or different version, install lib to /lib.
2) Produce "link file" telling app where the different libs reside.

RunTime-
1) Modify program loader to copy needed libs to program virtual memory space.

Finally got Haiku booting!

Forum thread started by mxl on Thu, 2010-05-06 15:14

:D
I finally got haiku booting!
Before it would not boot (would just restart instantly.
This was due to a bad ram stick and my 4850X2 being really really weird (Burned card)

Booting off a quad core Phenom II (Soon to be Hexacore) 955 BE OC'ed to 300FSB x 12 with two 5770 running in crossfire mode, booting up Haiku (vesa mode ofcourse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLXdMNLZiHk

Reason I'm posting this is because for some weird reason, my mouse is really twitchy.
I thought it was because of me running Haiku in vesa mode, but after running chart flawless in 60 FPS, I suspect it's an issue with the USB

Using a m4a79t motherboard, it detects Ethernet and sound also (which was very surprising :) )

Catch you on the 10th of may :)
I hope the mouse issue is fixed in the next release!

Haiku Applications Review

Forum thread started by AndrewZ on Tue, 2010-05-04 13:18

I would like to discuss a topic that may be a little outside the subject of Haiku coding but is very important to Haiku success overall and certainly important to Alpha R2. The subject is Haiku New User Experience.

When a new user installs Haiku for the first time they will give Haiku a test drive for 10 – 15 minutes and then begin to ask critical questions: What can I do with Haiku that is fun, entertaining, or productive? What makes Haiku different from Windows, Mac, Linux? Why should I switch to Haiku? Unfortunately if someone just installs the Alpha release they will not get answers to these questions, they may even become frustrated and abandon their new installation.

The answer to an excellent Haiku New User Experience is in the applications. There are dozens of new Haiku applications. There are many hundreds of legacy BeOS applications. Most are archived by Karl on haikuware.com but many other great applications are scattered on various web sites. In theory Haikuware has a rating system to help differentiate good from bad apps. But the rating system is seldom filled out by people so it is of little use.

So we have many hundreds of applications and we need to sort out the really good ones so users can have excellent applications. I would like to propose 3 phases to collect the best Haiku/BeOS applications:

1. Everyone nominates their favorite applications
2. Applications are tested for usability, stability, support, coolness, and Haiku-ness
3. We create a guide for the Haiku New User Experience outlining recommended applications and how best to experience Haiku

There are several serious benefits to this plan:

1. We create a list of tested, recommended Haiku applications
2. People who are non-technical can get involved in testing and rating
3. Testing important applications can generate a focused and prioritized bug list to fix things sooner rather than later
4. People who are reviewing Haiku for publications will have a good list to start with
5. We can rediscover old BeOS applications that are mostly forgotten
6. The final list of applications can be put onto Alpha R3 or the Beta disc
7. To do this does not take a lot of effort and does not slow down R2 development

I have discussed this project with a number of developers and everyone agrees it is not a bad idea. OK, how do we start? We start by signing up on haikuware.com if you have not already done so, and go to the Applications Review forum at http://haikuware.com/forum/application-reviews . Once there, list as many applications as you would recommend, and include reasons why you recommend each application. Categories for recommendation are usability, stability, support, coolness, and Haiku-ness or something else you want to add. Once we get enough submissions we can put out a call for testing volunteers and start usability testing.

Please join us on haikuware and contribute your list of recommended apps. Discussion is welcome!

- Andrew

Questions about Haiku's file system/file manager

Forum thread started by rbw on Tue, 2010-05-04 04:11

Hey! I'm excited about Haiku and have played around a bit with the VM a bit. The concept behind Haiku is very close to what I would envision for an operating system of choice.

One thing I'd like to know about, is how the file system works. I hear it is 'database-like'. But, when looking at the file manager it doesn't show me any of the fancy stuff I was hoping for to tag and sort my files. It appears just like any other tree system. So where is/how do I see that functionality?

I've long thought of a database file system that stores only one local copy of a file, and have some kind of system like SVN to keep your original files in tact while allowing you to go on and create new versions and alterations of it, as you would with picture files and other media. Getting to your files would be a snap, just select your files which are 'pictures', and are 'user created' and relate to subject 'xyz'.

Then operating system files can just have a special tag reserved for them. Archived/original files can be read-only. Applications have an application tag, and all files relating to 'application x' can be found. So when i was reading the discussion about linux-like package manager, i've been wondering why can't the power of a database-like system take care of it? it doesn't matter where files go when they install, only that they are marked with who created them.

Thanks for all the great effort into producing Haiku. I think it has a ways to go yet but is fast turning into something usable and enjoyable to use. One of the things I really appreciate is the attempt to avoid duplicating effort. This is really important in open source software, where there are millions of programs to choose from but only a couple of the choices actually work!

Haiku netbook Compatibility Chart

Forum thread started by pacha on Sun, 2010-05-02 09:27

hi,
everyone loves notebook ! and as some other sites (see http://www.mymacnetbook.com/compatibility-chart/)
why the haiku community dont do this ? a Haiku netbook Compatibility Chart to help buyers find a relevant hardware for Haiku.

Make the 'BeOSCompatibility' package mandatory for releases

Forum thread started by kvdman on Sat, 2010-05-01 23:58

I think, as the maintainer of bebits and haikuware, that releases, such as the alphas, and eventually R1, should contain the BeOSCompatibility package. It doesn't make sense to make it an optional package. Somewhere along the line, Haiku dropped the 'binary compatibility' with BeOS phrase that graced their homepage's description of what Haiku was and was aiming to achieve.

Probably >80% of the software (that Haiku's User Guide links to these websites), is BeOS software, so why make the BeOSCompatibility package optional? Most users probably won't even know it exists. They'll then download BeOS software which likely won't work under Haiku.

The BeOSCompatibility package adds support for BeOS items, like linking /boot/var/tmp to its new, Haiku modified location. A good example of an application that wouldn't work because of this move is Caya, or PackageBuilder

http://lists.osdrawer.net/pipermail/caya-commits-osdrawer.net/2010-April...

Devs may read BeOS docs (because of the lack of Haiku docs) and code apps to adhere to these coding guidelines, and then their apps won't work.

What is the logic behind making the BeOSCompatibility package optional? Secondly, why isn't it available at: www.haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/

??

No one is talking about HP/Palm

Forum thread started by beta.services on Sat, 2010-05-01 08:34

Sorry, I haven't been around BeOS for quite a few years now.

But when I heard that HP was buying Palm, a few Red flags were thrown for me.

Firstly, am I wrong in assuming that Palm still owned BeOS ?

As I understood it, they didn't care about the whole 'Open BeOS' movement because they weren't developing desktop systems.

If HP now own the BeOS IP, are they going to be more concerned about Haiku?

If they aren't worried, is anyone lobbying them to release the original source?

Would releasing the Zeta source at this late stage in Haiku's development cycle be considered a good or bad thing for the community?

-> And if I am wrong, and HP/Palm aren't the current owners of the Be Inc IP, then who is?

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